BayAreaHokie - you'll get a kick out of this.

[USN_Hokie]

Police departments training as infantry...

http://www.clantonadvertiser.com/2015/1 ... the-worst/

[ieatbacon]

Police departments training as infantry...

http://www.clantonadvertiser.com/2015/1 ... the-worst/

I heard an interesting claim in an interview of a former Baltimore Police Officer/former Marine (sorry, forgot his name...). Essentially, his point was that Police Officers, without former military training, are ill-equipped/under-trained to deal with situations where they may have to use their gun. They haven't experienced the pressure/intensity before, thus their nerves lead them to be more likely to fire when a suspect is running away/reaching for a phone/etc. I haven't seen any data to back this up, but it seems plausible that a trained Marine would be more disciplined than your average police officer and may justify the idea of "infantry training" for police - or better yet, establishing a stronger pipeline from military to police.

[VisorBoy]

Police departments training as infantry...

http://www.clantonadvertiser.com/2015/1 ... the-worst/

I heard an interesting claim in an interview of a former Baltimore Police Officer/former Marine (sorry, forgot his name...). Essentially, his point was that Police Officers, without former military training, are ill-equipped/under-trained to deal with situations where they may have to use their gun. They haven't experienced the pressure/intensity before, thus their nerves lead them to be more likely to fire when a suspect is running away/reaching for a phone/etc. I haven't seen any data to back this up, but it seems plausible that a trained Marine would be more disciplined than your average police officer and may justify the idea of "infantry training" for police - or better yet, establishing a stronger pipeline from military to police.

I'd be hesitant to encourage a 'military-to-police' path. Soldiers, particularly those that have seen action, would need extensive training due to the difference between the two roles. Specifically, the difference between those who they are fighting (e.g. fellow citizens as suspects vs. enemies as guilty by their mere presence on the battlefield).

This doesn't even take into account the effect PTSD could have for those so afflicted.

Obviously, everything is a case-by-case basis, but I'd be weary of a structured military-to-police gateway being set up.

[ieatbacon]

Police departments training as infantry...

http://www.clantonadvertiser.com/2015/1 ... the-worst/

I heard an interesting claim in an interview of a former Baltimore Police Officer/former Marine (sorry, forgot his name...). Essentially, his point was that Police Officers, without former military training, are ill-equipped/under-trained to deal with situations where they may have to use their gun. They haven't experienced the pressure/intensity before, thus their nerves lead them to be more likely to fire when a suspect is running away/reaching for a phone/etc. I haven't seen any data to back this up, but it seems plausible that a trained Marine would be more disciplined than your average police officer and may justify the idea of "infantry training" for police - or better yet, establishing a stronger pipeline from military to police.

I'd be hesitant to encourage a 'military-to-police' path. Soldiers, particularly those that have seen action, would need extensive training due to the difference between the two roles. Specifically, the difference between those who they are fighting (e.g. fellow citizens as suspects vs. enemies as guilty by their mere presence on the battlefield).

This doesn't even take into account the effect PTSD could have for those so afflicted.

Obviously, everything is a case-by-case basis, but I'd be weary of a structured military-to-police gateway being set up.

While I agree PTSD and other issues have to be looked at closely, I think your over-emphasizing the "trained-killer" aspect of a soldier and under-emphasizing the other traits developed through their training and experience in combat. They have very strict rules-of-engagement (the battle field is often city streets today where everyone is not an enemy), and they've been trained (and have practiced) to react based on real threats, and therefore are likely better equipped to assess actions by a suspect and not rely on fear/emotions.

I wish I had good data on this - While there's a lot of former military that are police today, I suspect they're underrepresented in the set of officers that we routinely see in the news today overreacting/chocking/shooting/etc.

[USN_Hokie]

Police departments training as infantry...

http://www.clantonadvertiser.com/2015/1 ... the-worst/

I heard an interesting claim in an interview of a former Baltimore Police Officer/former Marine (sorry, forgot his name...). Essentially, his point was that Police Officers, without former military training, are ill-equipped/under-trained to deal with situations where they may have to use their gun. They haven't experienced the pressure/intensity before, thus their nerves lead them to be more likely to fire when a suspect is running away/reaching for a phone/etc. I haven't seen any data to back this up, but it seems plausible that a trained Marine would be more disciplined than your average police officer and may justify the idea of "infantry training" for police - or better yet, establishing a stronger pipeline from military to police.

On the contrary, I feel that someone with only military training does not have the correct mindset to be interacting with ordinary citizens on the street. IE - the training that's appropriate for dealing with a sheep herder/taliban member in Kandahar is not appropriate for pulling grandma over on the side of the road for doing 63 in a 45. A soldier isn't trying to keep the sheep herder safe, he's trying to find bad guys and kill them. This mindset, when applied here, can lead to escalation in some situations.

Before anyone says "well they still have to go to police academy, etc." - that training is paltry in comparison to the military and its constant training environment.

[ieatbacon]

Police departments training as infantry...

http://www.clantonadvertiser.com/2015/1 ... the-worst/

I heard an interesting claim in an interview of a former Baltimore Police Officer/former Marine (sorry, forgot his name...). Essentially, his point was that Police Officers, without former military training, are ill-equipped/under-trained to deal with situations where they may have to use their gun. They haven't experienced the pressure/intensity before, thus their nerves lead them to be more likely to fire when a suspect is running away/reaching for a phone/etc. I haven't seen any data to back this up, but it seems plausible that a trained Marine would be more disciplined than your average police officer and may justify the idea of "infantry training" for police - or better yet, establishing a stronger pipeline from military to police.

On the contrary, I feel that someone with only military training does not have the correct mindset to be interacting with ordinary citizens on the street. IE - the training that's appropriate for dealing with a sheep herder/taliban member in Kandahar is not appropriate for pulling grandma over on the side of the road for doing 63 in a 45. A soldier isn't trying to keep the sheep herder safe, he's trying to find bad guys and kill them. This mindset, when applied here, can lead to escalation in some situations.

Before anyone says "well they still have to go to police academy, etc." - that training is paltry in comparison to the military and its constant training environment.

Since your first paragraph contradicts your caveat at the end, I thought it was worth reiterating:

1) Having military experience doesn't mean you need no additional training to be a police officer.
2) Giving police officers some combat-like experience doesn't mean you substitute it for other training - They likely need more training.

As a side note, it also doesn't mean they need military-style weapons (armored vehicles, etc.) Training and equipment are entirely different issues.

Edit: One additional thought, you did hit on a key issue with "that training is paltry in comparison to the military and its constant training environment" - its not just an issue of mlitary-style vs. police-style training. There's probably value is reevaluating how training is performed in police dept. - academy vs. continuous.

[USN_Hokie]

Fine, replace "only" with "mostly" (yes, I was being hyperbolic). It doesn't change my argument. This is a good opportunity to bring up the fact that most police departments have programs to fast track ex military. So the ex mil guys get less training when they really need more in some aspects.

I'm a firm believer that people will act how you let them dress (this is true anywhere). You let cops dress like jack-booted thugs - they'll act like jack-booted thugs. Consequently, you let cops dress up like they're marines about to kick down a Taliban leader's door, they'll treat your grandma doing 63 in a 45 commensurately.

[133743Hokie]

Fine, replace "only" with "mostly" (yes, I was being hyperbolic). It doesn't change my argument. This is a good opportunity to bring up the fact that most police departments have programs to fast track ex military. So the ex mil guys get less training when they really need more in some aspects.

I'm a firm believer that people will act how you let them dress (this is true anywhere). You let cops dress like jack-booted thugs - they'll act like jack-booted thugs. Consequently, you let cops dress up like they're marines about to kick down a Taliban leader's door, they'll treat your grandma doing 63 in a 45 commensurately.

Ex-military are not fast tracked thru police training. They go thru the same academy and same training as all recruits. They don't get less training.

[USN_Hokie]

Fine, replace "only" with "mostly" (yes, I was being hyperbolic). It doesn't change my argument. This is a good opportunity to bring up the fact that most police departments have programs to fast track ex military. So the ex mil guys get less training when they really need more in some aspects.

I'm a firm believer that people will act how you let them dress (this is true anywhere). You let cops dress like jack-booted thugs - they'll act like jack-booted thugs. Consequently, you let cops dress up like they're marines about to kick down a Taliban leader's door, they'll treat your grandma doing 63 in a 45 commensurately.

Ex-military are not fast tracked thru police training. They go thru the same academy and same training as all recruits. They don't get less training.

Just one example:

http://www.policeone.com/police-jobs-an ... -military/

https://www.txmf.us/perry-signs-chris-k ... e-licenses

[ieatbacon]

Fine, replace "only" with "mostly" (yes, I was being hyperbolic). It doesn't change my argument. This is a good opportunity to bring up the fact that most police departments have programs to fast track ex military. So the ex mil guys get less training when they really need more in some aspects.

I'm a firm believer that people will act how you let them dress (this is true anywhere). You let cops dress like jack-booted thugs - they'll act like jack-booted thugs. Consequently, you let cops dress up like they're marines about to kick down a Taliban leader's door, they'll treat your grandma doing 63 in a 45 commensurately.

I agree with all that, actually. My point is Police Officer may not have adequate training/experience to deal with high-intensity/high-risk situations. The military better trains for that, but that doesn't mean a Soldier/Marine has all the training that is needed to be a police officer.

And training is separate from how they're equipped and dressed. The broader militarization of police is a problem.

[133743Hokie]

Fine, replace "only" with "mostly" (yes, I was being hyperbolic). It doesn't change my argument. This is a good opportunity to bring up the fact that most police departments have programs to fast track ex military. So the ex mil guys get less training when they really need more in some aspects.

I'm a firm believer that people will act how you let them dress (this is true anywhere). You let cops dress like jack-booted thugs - they'll act like jack-booted thugs. Consequently, you let cops dress up like they're marines about to kick down a Taliban leader's door, they'll treat your grandma doing 63 in a 45 commensurately.

Ex-military are not fast tracked thru police training. They go thru the same academy and same training as all recruits. They don't get less training.

Just one example:

http://www.policeone.com/police-jobs-an ... -military/

https://www.txmf.us/perry-signs-chris-k ... e-licenses

So, In Texas, they get credit for certain things (weapons training? defensive driving?) and still have to go thru the regular training regarding policy, procedure, the law, public relations, etc., etc. I stand by my comment. Ex-military still have to go thru the same academy and training as all other non-military recruits.

[Bay_area_Hokie]

Thanks for posting USN!

[USN_Hokie]

Fine, replace "only" with "mostly" (yes, I was being hyperbolic). It doesn't change my argument. This is a good opportunity to bring up the fact that most police departments have programs to fast track ex military. So the ex mil guys get less training when they really need more in some aspects.

I'm a firm believer that people will act how you let them dress (this is true anywhere). You let cops dress like jack-booted thugs - they'll act like jack-booted thugs. Consequently, you let cops dress up like they're marines about to kick down a Taliban leader's door, they'll treat your grandma doing 63 in a 45 commensurately.

Ex-military are not fast tracked thru police training. They go thru the same academy and same training as all recruits. They don't get less training.

Just one example:

http://www.policeone.com/police-jobs-an ... -military/

https://www.txmf.us/perry-signs-chris-k ... e-licenses

So, In Texas, they get credit for certain things (weapons training? defensive driving?) and still have to go thru the regular training regarding policy, procedure, the law, public relations, etc., etc. I stand by my comment. Ex-military still have to go thru the same academy and training as all other non-military recruits.

Your point was they have to go through the same training. You were wrong.

[Bay_area_Hokie]

Cops should focus on making their communities better places to live. Their role model should be Andy from Mayberry. Guys in Alabama training for a terrorist attack is fulfilling some kind of need in their own minds....

[USN_Hokie]

Cops should focus on making their communities better places to live. Their role model should be Andy from Mayberry. Guys in Alabama training for a terrorist attack is fulfilling some kind of need in their own minds....

I'll add: Violent Crime (including police officer deaths) has been on a steady decline for the last 20+ years.





2013 marked the lowest # of police killed in over 100 years. We, despite what the nightly news would have you believe, live in a much safer place than we did 20 years ago. This move to militarize police is irrational. For anyone wondering, the town in question is a little po-dunk township of less than 1,000 708 people. Here's the first picture that comes up when you google image search Maplesville, AL:

[133743Hokie]

Fine, replace "only" with "mostly" (yes, I was being hyperbolic). It doesn't change my argument. This is a good opportunity to bring up the fact that most police departments have programs to fast track ex military. So the ex mil guys get less training when they really need more in some aspects.

I'm a firm believer that people will act how you let them dress (this is true anywhere). You let cops dress like jack-booted thugs - they'll act like jack-booted thugs. Consequently, you let cops dress up like they're marines about to kick down a Taliban leader's door, they'll treat your grandma doing 63 in a 45 commensurately.

Ex-military are not fast tracked thru police training. They go thru the same academy and same training as all recruits. They don't get less training.

Just one example:

http://www.policeone.com/police-jobs-an ... -military/

https://www.txmf.us/perry-signs-chris-k ... e-licenses

So, In Texas, they get credit for certain things (weapons training? defensive driving?) and still have to go thru the regular training regarding policy, procedure, the law, public relations, etc., etc. I stand by my comment. Ex-military still have to go thru the same academy and training as all other non-military recruits.

Your point was they have to go through the same training. You were wrong.

No I wasn't. They go thru the same training. As an example many recruits spend hours/days on the range honing their skill to pass their weapons exam, ex-military go straight to the test. They have to pass the same test, but based on their skill set they are already prepared.

Oh, and you intimated that this is some broad concept sweeping the nation. It's Texas.