McConnell to allow straight repeal vote of Obummercare

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ip_law-hokie
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Re: McConnell to allow straight repeal vote of Obummercare

Post by ip_law-hokie »

USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
How is that any different than not being able to get the votes for a repeal and replace.
In 2 years, the ACA will either have fallen apart, muddled along in mediocrity like it's current state, or gotten better (seems unlikely).
And if there still isn't a reasonable replacement, we'll be in the same boat we're in today.

What would be perfect would be doing something that actually improves the healthcare system and cuts costs.
It makes democrats run on Obamacare during midterms and creates a forcing function to figure out a solution.
I don't buy the forcing function. If they still don't have a replacement in place in 2 years, they are not going to just wipe away the ACA.

And on the second point, are you against them coming up with measures to improve healthcare? Why don't you think that is the smart thing to do?
"Improve Healthcare" how do you expect me to respond to such a silly subjective thing? That's just flowery bullshit fed by and to folks to illicit an emotional response.
^^^This is an emotional response.^^^

It's not subjective. We have a healthcare system today. You, and I, think it sucks and needs to be changed. What steps do you think need to be taken to change our healthcare system and make it better than it is today? "Repeal Obamacare" isn't improving anything without taking additional steps.

So,why don't we take those steps today, rather than make no progress b/c no one can agree on how to replace the entire ACA?
Nope. Sorry.

1. Speaking with emotion is not the same thing as a response driven by emotion. Words are important. You're making the same stupid "we have to do something" argument that got us into this mess.

2. Your argument defeats itself. You think we all agree healthcare needs to be improved, yet you have to ask me what steps need to be taken? You admit there is no consensus - your argument is fallacious.

3. Curious - What would Margaret Sanger say should be done to "improve Healthcare?" Are you trying to tell me there's no subjective differences in your interpretation of the phrase?

Of course not. That's why the question is silly bullshit meant to illicit an irrational response.
When is the repeal coming up for a vote?


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Re: McConnell to allow straight repeal vote of Obummercare

Post by 133743Hokie »

HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:...w/ 2yrs to implement replacement. Perfect.

How is that any different than not being able to get the votes for a repeal and replace.
In 2 years, the ACA will either have fallen apart, muddled along in mediocrity like it's current state, or gotten better (seems unlikely).
And if there still isn't a reasonable replacement, we'll be in the same boat we're in today.

What would be perfect would be doing something that actually improves the healthcare system and cuts costs.
It makes democrats run on Obamacare during midterms and creates a forcing function to figure out a solution.
I don't buy the forcing function. If they still don't have a replacement in place in 2 years, they are not going to just wipe away the ACA.

And on the second point, are you against them coming up with measures to improve healthcare? Why don't you think that is the smart thing to do?
"Improve Healthcare" how do you expect me to respond to such a silly subjective thing? That's just flowery bullshit fed by and to folks to illicit an emotional response.
^^^This is an emotional response.^^^

It's not subjective. We have a healthcare system today. You, and I, think it sucks and needs to be changed. What steps do you think need to be taken to change our healthcare system and make it better than it is today? "Repeal Obamacare" isn't improving anything without taking additional steps.

So,why don't we take those steps today, rather than make no progress b/c no one can agree on how to replace the entire ACA?
Because the ACA is such a convoluted, intertwined, cluster f**k of a plan that it can't be reasonably modified. It has to be fully repealed with not a single aspect of it remaining. It is the only way to fix the problem Obama and the democrats created.
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Re: McConnell to allow straight repeal vote of Obummercare

Post by 133743Hokie »

ip_law-hokie wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:...w/ 2yrs to implement replacement. Perfect.

How is that any different than not being able to get the votes for a repeal and replace.
In 2 years, the ACA will either have fallen apart, muddled along in mediocrity like it's current state, or gotten better (seems unlikely).
And if there still isn't a reasonable replacement, we'll be in the same boat we're in today.

What would be perfect would be doing something that actually improves the healthcare system and cuts costs.
Cap'n is always on the clock.
premiums are increasing double digits, people are not insured, the tax penalty is going to be skyrocketing (as per Obamacare plan) and the individual market has collapsed in some markets and will collapse in the rest...

great plan to stick with, not sure why you are rooting for it but that is your style
Cwtcer - I support single payer.


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Why specifically do you support single payer?

You always throw out the comment that you want single payer. I assumed it was really just red meat to froth up those on the right on this board. Is there actually something of substance to your comment?
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Re: McConnell to allow straight repeal vote of Obummercare

Post by ip_law-hokie »

133743Hokie wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:...w/ 2yrs to implement replacement. Perfect.

How is that any different than not being able to get the votes for a repeal and replace.
In 2 years, the ACA will either have fallen apart, muddled along in mediocrity like it's current state, or gotten better (seems unlikely).
And if there still isn't a reasonable replacement, we'll be in the same boat we're in today.

What would be perfect would be doing something that actually improves the healthcare system and cuts costs.
Cap'n is always on the clock.
premiums are increasing double digits, people are not insured, the tax penalty is going to be skyrocketing (as per Obamacare plan) and the individual market has collapsed in some markets and will collapse in the rest...

great plan to stick with, not sure why you are rooting for it but that is your style
Cwtcer - I support single payer.


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Why specifically do you support single payer?

You always throw out the comment that you want single payer. I assumed it was really just red meat to froth up those on the right on this board. Is there actually something of substance to your comment?
Sure.


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With their Cap’n and Chief Intelligence Officer having deserted them, River, Ham and Joe valiantly continue their whataboutismistic last stand of the DJT apology tour.
133743Hokie
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Re: McConnell to allow straight repeal vote of Obummercare

Post by 133743Hokie »

ip_law-hokie wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:

How is that any different than not being able to get the votes for a repeal and replace.
In 2 years, the ACA will either have fallen apart, muddled along in mediocrity like it's current state, or gotten better (seems unlikely).
And if there still isn't a reasonable replacement, we'll be in the same boat we're in today.

What would be perfect would be doing something that actually improves the healthcare system and cuts costs.
Cap'n is always on the clock.
premiums are increasing double digits, people are not insured, the tax penalty is going to be skyrocketing (as per Obamacare plan) and the individual market has collapsed in some markets and will collapse in the rest...

great plan to stick with, not sure why you are rooting for it but that is your style
Cwtcer - I support single payer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Why specifically do you support single payer?

You always throw out the comment that you want single payer. I assumed it was really just red meat to froth up those on the right on this board. Is there actually something of substance to your comment?
Sure.


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Wonderful answer. So red meat it is I guess
HokieFanDC
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Re: McConnell to allow straight repeal vote of Obummercare

Post by HokieFanDC »

USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
How is that any different than not being able to get the votes for a repeal and replace.
In 2 years, the ACA will either have fallen apart, muddled along in mediocrity like it's current state, or gotten better (seems unlikely).
And if there still isn't a reasonable replacement, we'll be in the same boat we're in today.

What would be perfect would be doing something that actually improves the healthcare system and cuts costs.
It makes democrats run on Obamacare during midterms and creates a forcing function to figure out a solution.
I don't buy the forcing function. If they still don't have a replacement in place in 2 years, they are not going to just wipe away the ACA.

And on the second point, are you against them coming up with measures to improve healthcare? Why don't you think that is the smart thing to do?
"Improve Healthcare" how do you expect me to respond to such a silly subjective thing? That's just flowery bullshit fed by and to folks to illicit an emotional response.
^^^This is an emotional response.^^^

It's not subjective. We have a healthcare system today. You, and I, think it sucks and needs to be changed. What steps do you think need to be taken to change our healthcare system and make it better than it is today? "Repeal Obamacare" isn't improving anything without taking additional steps.

So,why don't we take those steps today, rather than make no progress b/c no one can agree on how to replace the entire ACA?
Nope. Sorry.

1. Speaking with emotion is not the same thing as a response driven by emotion. Words are important. You're making the same stupid "we have to do something" argument that got us into this mess.

2. Your argument defeats itself. You think we all agree healthcare needs to be improved, yet you have to ask me what steps need to be taken? You admit there is no consensus - your argument is fallacious.

3. Curious - What would Margaret Sanger say should be done to "improve Healthcare?" Are you trying to tell me there's no subjective differences in your interpretation of the phrase?

Of course not. That's why the question is silly bullshit meant to illicit an irrational response.

Actually, I'm asking you questions, not making an argument.

I'm making an assumption that you think "we have to do something", based on your cheering on the idea of repealing Obamacare (which is doing something), and replacing it sometime later. I'm not asking for a consensus, I asked you directly what YOU think needs to be done, when it is replaced. If you don't think we should be doing something, then there's nothing to discuss with you. If you think something should be done, then what do YOU think those steps are, and why not pass some of those now??
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Re: McConnell to allow straight repeal vote of Obummacare

Post by Attila T Hun »

The ACA is a disaster for all Americans. With the Pubs now being unable to act, both sides can take credit for the abomination.
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Re: McConnell to allow straight repeal vote of Obummercare

Post by USN_Hokie »

ip_law-hokie wrote: When is the repeal coming?
It's in the mail with your libertarian party membership card.
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Re: McConnell to allow straight repeal vote of Obummercare

Post by ip_law-hokie »

USN_Hokie wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote: When is the repeal coming?
It's in the mail with your libertarian party membership card.
Well you said it's coming, so it must be true, Cap'n. You wouldn't bullshit us.


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Re: McConnell to allow straight repeal vote of Obummercare

Post by USN_Hokie »

HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
It makes democrats run on Obamacare during midterms and creates a forcing function to figure out a solution.
I don't buy the forcing function. If they still don't have a replacement in place in 2 years, they are not going to just wipe away the ACA.

And on the second point, are you against them coming up with measures to improve healthcare? Why don't you think that is the smart thing to do?
"Improve Healthcare" how do you expect me to respond to such a silly subjective thing? That's just flowery bullshit fed by and to folks to illicit an emotional response.
^^^This is an emotional response.^^^

It's not subjective. We have a healthcare system today. You, and I, think it sucks and needs to be changed. What steps do you think need to be taken to change our healthcare system and make it better than it is today? "Repeal Obamacare" isn't improving anything without taking additional steps.

So,why don't we take those steps today, rather than make no progress b/c no one can agree on how to replace the entire ACA?
Nope. Sorry.

1. Speaking with emotion is not the same thing as a response driven by emotion. Words are important. You're making the same stupid "we have to do something" argument that got us into this mess.

2. Your argument defeats itself. You think we all agree healthcare needs to be improved, yet you have to ask me what steps need to be taken? You admit there is no consensus - your argument is fallacious.

3. Curious - What would Margaret Sanger say should be done to "improve Healthcare?" Are you trying to tell me there's no subjective differences in your interpretation of the phrase?

Of course not. That's why the question is silly bullshit meant to illicit an irrational response.

Actually, I'm asking you questions, not making an argument.

I'm making an assumption that you think "we have to do something", based on your cheering on the idea of repealing Obamacare (which is doing something), and replacing it sometime later. I'm not asking for a consensus, I asked you directly what YOU think needs to be done, when it is replaced. If you don't think we should be doing something, then there's nothing to discuss with you. If you think something should be done, then what do YOU think those steps are, and why not pass some of those now??
Rhetorical questions are arguments. JFC.
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Re: McConnell to allow straight repeal vote of Obummercare

Post by USN_Hokie »

ip_law-hokie wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote: When is the repeal coming?
It's in the mail with your libertarian party membership card.
Well you said it's coming, so it must be true, Cap'n. You wouldn't bullshit us.


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Re: McConnell to allow straight repeal vote of Obummercare

Post by HokieFanDC »

USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
"Improve Healthcare" how do you expect me to respond to such a silly subjective thing? That's just flowery bullshit fed by and to folks to illicit an emotional response.
^^^This is an emotional response.^^^

It's not subjective. We have a healthcare system today. You, and I, think it sucks and needs to be changed. What steps do you think need to be taken to change our healthcare system and make it better than it is today? "Repeal Obamacare" isn't improving anything without taking additional steps.

So,why don't we take those steps today, rather than make no progress b/c no one can agree on how to replace the entire ACA?
Nope. Sorry.

1. Speaking with emotion is not the same thing as a response driven by emotion. Words are important. You're making the same stupid "we have to do something" argument that got us into this mess.

2. Your argument defeats itself. You think we all agree healthcare needs to be improved, yet you have to ask me what steps need to be taken? You admit there is no consensus - your argument is fallacious.

3. Curious - What would Margaret Sanger say should be done to "improve Healthcare?" Are you trying to tell me there's no subjective differences in your interpretation of the phrase?

Of course not. That's why the question is silly bullshit meant to illicit an irrational response.

Actually, I'm asking you questions, not making an argument.

I'm making an assumption that you think "we have to do something", based on your cheering on the idea of repealing Obamacare (which is doing something), and replacing it sometime later. I'm not asking for a consensus, I asked you directly what YOU think needs to be done, when it is replaced. If you don't think we should be doing something, then there's nothing to discuss with you. If you think something should be done, then what do YOU think those steps are, and why not pass some of those now??
Rhetorical questions are arguments. JFC.
I didn't ask a rhetorical question, I asked YOU questions.
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Re: McConnell to allow straight repeal vote of Obummercare

Post by USN_Hokie »

Yes your rhetorical question was directed at me.
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Re: McConnell to allow straight repeal vote of Obummercare

Post by HokieFanDC »

133743Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
How is that any different than not being able to get the votes for a repeal and replace.
In 2 years, the ACA will either have fallen apart, muddled along in mediocrity like it's current state, or gotten better (seems unlikely).
And if there still isn't a reasonable replacement, we'll be in the same boat we're in today.

What would be perfect would be doing something that actually improves the healthcare system and cuts costs.
It makes democrats run on Obamacare during midterms and creates a forcing function to figure out a solution.
I don't buy the forcing function. If they still don't have a replacement in place in 2 years, they are not going to just wipe away the ACA.

And on the second point, are you against them coming up with measures to improve healthcare? Why don't you think that is the smart thing to do?
"Improve Healthcare" how do you expect me to respond to such a silly subjective thing? That's just flowery bullshit fed by and to folks to illicit an emotional response.
^^^This is an emotional response.^^^

It's not subjective. We have a healthcare system today. You, and I, think it sucks and needs to be changed. What steps do you think need to be taken to change our healthcare system and make it better than it is today? "Repeal Obamacare" isn't improving anything without taking additional steps.

So,why don't we take those steps today, rather than make no progress b/c no one can agree on how to replace the entire ACA?
Because the ACA is such a convoluted, intertwined, cluster f**k of a plan that it can't be reasonably modified. It has to be fully repealed with not a single aspect of it remaining. It is the only way to fix the problem Obama and the democrats created.
I disagree. Think about it this way.

Let's say we open up prescription drug purchasing from Canada. And promote generic drugs. Tort reform. Sell insurance across state lines. Or whatever you think will reduce overall healthcare costs. If you reduce costs, and those reductions flow to consumers in lower healthcare premiums or deductions, then more ppl can afford to buy whatever healthcare is available. Once you make it more afforable, the change from the ACA to a new plan is less impactful, and more easily done.
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Re: McConnell to allow straight repeal vote of Obummercare

Post by HokieFanDC »

USN_Hokie wrote:Yes your rhetorical question was directed at me.
I wanted you to answer the questions.
If you can't, no big deal.
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Re: McConnell to allow straight repeal vote of Obummercare

Post by 133743Hokie »

HokieFanDC wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
It makes democrats run on Obamacare during midterms and creates a forcing function to figure out a solution.
I don't buy the forcing function. If they still don't have a replacement in place in 2 years, they are not going to just wipe away the ACA.

And on the second point, are you against them coming up with measures to improve healthcare? Why don't you think that is the smart thing to do?
"Improve Healthcare" how do you expect me to respond to such a silly subjective thing? That's just flowery bullshit fed by and to folks to illicit an emotional response.
^^^This is an emotional response.^^^

It's not subjective. We have a healthcare system today. You, and I, think it sucks and needs to be changed. What steps do you think need to be taken to change our healthcare system and make it better than it is today? "Repeal Obamacare" isn't improving anything without taking additional steps.

So,why don't we take those steps today, rather than make no progress b/c no one can agree on how to replace the entire ACA?
Because the ACA is such a convoluted, intertwined, cluster f**k of a plan that it can't be reasonably modified. It has to be fully repealed with not a single aspect of it remaining. It is the only way to fix the problem Obama and the democrats created.
I disagree. Think about it this way.

Let's say we open up prescription drug purchasing from Canada. And promote generic drugs. Tort reform. Sell insurance across state lines. Or whatever you think will reduce overall healthcare costs. If you reduce costs, and those reductions flow to consumers in lower healthcare premiums or deductions, then more ppl can afford to buy whatever healthcare is available. Once you make it more afforable, the change from the ACA to a new plan is less impactful, and more easily done.
No, because 1) the growth of medicaid is unsustainable, and 2) healthy people are needed to support the premiums of the sick and that isn't going to happen. That's just two examples. The ACA is "un-fixable" because it is too convoluted, too intertwined with too many other things, etc. you can't put a band-aid on it. You can't keep parts of it, because doing so requires you to keep parts that are disastrous and don't work. A clean slate is the only way to unwind it.
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Re: McConnell to allow straight repeal vote of Obummercare

Post by HokieFanDC »

133743Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote: "Improve Healthcare" how do you expect me to respond to such a silly subjective thing? That's just flowery bullshit fed by and to folks to illicit an emotional response.
^^^This is an emotional response.^^^

It's not subjective. We have a healthcare system today. You, and I, think it sucks and needs to be changed. What steps do you think need to be taken to change our healthcare system and make it better than it is today? "Repeal Obamacare" isn't improving anything without taking additional steps.

So,why don't we take those steps today, rather than make no progress b/c no one can agree on how to replace the entire ACA?
Because the ACA is such a convoluted, intertwined, cluster f**k of a plan that it can't be reasonably modified. It has to be fully repealed with not a single aspect of it remaining. It is the only way to fix the problem Obama and the democrats created.
I disagree. Think about it this way.

Let's say we open up prescription drug purchasing from Canada. And promote generic drugs. Tort reform. Sell insurance across state lines. Or whatever you think will reduce overall healthcare costs. If you reduce costs, and those reductions flow to consumers in lower healthcare premiums or deductions, then more ppl can afford to buy whatever healthcare is available. Once you make it more afforable, the change from the ACA to a new plan is less impactful, and more easily done.
No, because 1) the growth of medicaid is unsustainable, and 2) healthy people are needed to support the premiums of the sick and that isn't going to happen. That's just two examples. The ACA is "un-fixable" because it is too convoluted, too intertwined with too many other things, etc. you can't put a band-aid on it. You can't keep parts of it, because doing so requires you to keep parts that are disastrous and don't work. A clean slate is the only way to unwind it.
Right, but I think you've already conceded that it is not going to get unwound, too much political fallout.
If you do concede that, and clean slate is not happening now, then isn't putting in place cost control measures still a good step to take? If not, why do you think that?
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Re: McConnell to allow straight repeal vote of Obummercare

Post by Major Kong »

Just an aside but the whole Canadian Rx hubbub is just a big bunch of hooey.

For most prescriptions there is little difference between the cost in Canada and the the USA.

My insulin is no difference in cost and my Parkinson's drugs very, very little difference. It's pretty much the same across the board. For schitt's and giggles I priced my Rx at several pharmacies in Canada and on a whole I'd save $41.28 a year.
I only post using 100% recycled electrons.

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Re: McConnell to allow straight repeal vote of Obummercare

Post by USN_Hokie »

HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:Yes your rhetorical question was directed at me.
I wanted you to answer the questions.
If you can't, no big deal.
If you really want to know what I want: Less government and more choice. Tort reform is a good start.

Plenty of people want the opposite of that, though. You don't need 2000pgs of legislation for health insurance.
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Re: McConnell to allow straight repeal vote of Obummercare

Post by HokieFanDC »

USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:Yes your rhetorical question was directed at me.
I wanted you to answer the questions.
If you can't, no big deal.
If you really want to know what I want: Less government and more choice. Tort reform is a good start.

Plenty of people want the opposite of that, though. You don't need 2000pgs of legislation for health insurance.
I do, thanks.
133743Hokie
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Re: McConnell to allow straight repeal vote of Obummercare

Post by 133743Hokie »

HokieFanDC wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote: "Improve Healthcare" how do you expect me to respond to such a silly subjective thing? That's just flowery bullshit fed by and to folks to illicit an emotional response.
^^^This is an emotional response.^^^

It's not subjective. We have a healthcare system today. You, and I, think it sucks and needs to be changed. What steps do you think need to be taken to change our healthcare system and make it better than it is today? "Repeal Obamacare" isn't improving anything without taking additional steps.

So,why don't we take those steps today, rather than make no progress b/c no one can agree on how to replace the entire ACA?
Because the ACA is such a convoluted, intertwined, cluster f**k of a plan that it can't be reasonably modified. It has to be fully repealed with not a single aspect of it remaining. It is the only way to fix the problem Obama and the democrats created.
I disagree. Think about it this way.

Let's say we open up prescription drug purchasing from Canada. And promote generic drugs. Tort reform. Sell insurance across state lines. Or whatever you think will reduce overall healthcare costs. If you reduce costs, and those reductions flow to consumers in lower healthcare premiums or deductions, then more ppl can afford to buy whatever healthcare is available. Once you make it more afforable, the change from the ACA to a new plan is less impactful, and more easily done.
No, because 1) the growth of medicaid is unsustainable, and 2) healthy people are needed to support the premiums of the sick and that isn't going to happen. That's just two examples. The ACA is "un-fixable" because it is too convoluted, too intertwined with too many other things, etc. you can't put a band-aid on it. You can't keep parts of it, because doing so requires you to keep parts that are disastrous and don't work. A clean slate is the only way to unwind it.
Right, but I think you've already conceded that it is not going to get unwound, too much political fallout.
If you do concede that, and clean slate is not happening now, then isn't putting in place cost control measures still a good step to take? If not, why do you think that?
No, I haven't conceded that it won't get repealed in total. I see the political downside at this point in time, as opposed to 3 years ago. But I still think it's the best way to go for the country.

As I've stated before my desire is for a full repeal effective January 1, 2019. That gives congress about 12 months to figure out, hopefully in a bi-partisan manner, a legitimate solution. If the democrats want to obstruct, have at it. The republicans can just ram it down their throats. The marketplace would have about 5 or 6 months to gets its ducks in a row before roll-out. This would work for the republicans because it would be resolved before the mid-term elections in the fall of 2018, potentially boosting them if they do it right.
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