Its actually a good thing the "skinny" repeal failed, it

[cwtcr hokie]

would have just effed up the insurance market more. But let it fail, it is on its way

[ip_law-hokie]

Correct. Just more Trump winning.


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[cwtcr hokie]

Correct. Just more Trump winning.


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good idiot response, great conversation

[nolanvt]

Step closer to single payer, unfortunately, by not bringing a real bill to the floor.


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[cwtcr hokie]

Step closer to single payer, unfortunately, by not bringing a real bill to the floor.


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for you own sake you better hope not

[WestEndHokie39]

Step closer to single payer, unfortunately, by not bringing a real bill to the floor.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

for you own sake you better hope not

Yep, anyone who is still pushing single payer is not paying attention:

1) Charlie Gard
2) NHS announcing that they will not treat smokers or obese persons
3) More issues with waiting times in Canada and Great Britain
4) More VA issues coming to light (CNN published a report that billions spent on the system after the wait time scandal actually made some things worse)
5) France, despite having universal health care, had 26% of their patients forego care due to financial concerns. The "social security" system now eats up so much of their budget they are looking to have the complementary private market make up the difference, but they will charge acturial valid premiums which will result in "unequal" care.
6) Activists in Germany are trying to make private health insurance illegal, because it so much better than the universal coverage it is "unequal".

[RiverguyVT]

Step closer to single payer, unfortunately, by not bringing a real bill to the floor.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

for you own sake you better hope not

Yep, anyone who is still pushing single payer is not paying attention:

1) Charlie Gard
2) NHS announcing that they will not treat smokers or obese persons
3) More issues with waiting times in Canada and Great Britain
4) More VA issues coming to light (CNN published a report that billions spent on the system after the wait time scandal actually made some things worse)
5) France, despite having universal health care, had 26% of their patients forego care due to financial concerns. The "social security" system now eats up so much of their budget they are looking to have the complementary private market make up the difference, but they will charge acturial valid premiums which will result in "unequal" care.
6) Activists in Germany are trying to make private health insurance illegal, because it so much better than the universal coverage it is "unequal".

I'm sure McCain went to through the VA for his tumor treatment...didn't he?

[133743Hokie]

A good approach to replacement.

http://2017project.org/site/wp-content/ ... mmary1.pdf

[VisorBoy]

Step closer to single payer, unfortunately, by not bringing a real bill to the floor.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

for you own sake you better hope not

Yep, anyone who is still pushing single payer is not paying attention:

1) Charlie Gard
2) NHS announcing that they will not treat smokers or obese persons
3) More issues with waiting times in Canada and Great Britain
4) More VA issues coming to light (CNN published a report that billions spent on the system after the wait time scandal actually made some things worse)
5) France, despite having universal health care, had 26% of their patients forego care due to financial concerns. The "social security" system now eats up so much of their budget they are looking to have the complementary private market make up the difference, but they will charge acturial valid premiums which will result in "unequal" care.
6) Activists in Germany are trying to make private health insurance illegal, because it so much better than the universal coverage it is "unequal".

Do you have a source for #2, #5?

[cwtcr hokie]

Step closer to single payer, unfortunately, by not bringing a real bill to the floor.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

for you own sake you better hope not

Yep, anyone who is still pushing single payer is not paying attention:

1) Charlie Gard
2) NHS announcing that they will not treat smokers or obese persons
3) More issues with waiting times in Canada and Great Britain
4) More VA issues coming to light (CNN published a report that billions spent on the system after the wait time scandal actually made some things worse)
5) France, despite having universal health care, had 26% of their patients forego care due to financial concerns. The "social security" system now eats up so much of their budget they are looking to have the complementary private market make up the difference, but they will charge acturial valid premiums which will result in "unequal" care.
6) Activists in Germany are trying to make private health insurance illegal, because it so much better than the universal coverage it is "unequal".

Do you have a source for #2, #5?

not sure why this is hard to figure out, does medicare work really well? No, massive fraud, to have good care you have to buy a supplemental policy THRU INSURANCE COMPANIES, does VA care work well? No

WE have real world examples in the USA, never mind the issues in actual single payer countries

[WestEndHokie39]

Step closer to single payer, unfortunately, by not bringing a real bill to the floor.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

for you own sake you better hope not

Yep, anyone who is still pushing single payer is not paying attention:

1) Charlie Gard
2) NHS announcing that they will not treat smokers or obese persons
3) More issues with waiting times in Canada and Great Britain
4) More VA issues coming to light (CNN published a report that billions spent on the system after the wait time scandal actually made some things worse)
5) France, despite having universal health care, had 26% of their patients forego care due to financial concerns. The "social security" system now eats up so much of their budget they are looking to have the complementary private market make up the difference, but they will charge acturial valid premiums which will result in "unequal" care.
6) Activists in Germany are trying to make private health insurance illegal, because it so much better than the universal coverage it is "unequal".

Do you have a source for #2, #5?

#2
https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... se-smokers

#5
http://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2017/05/08/dan ... -policies/

[TheH2]

Step closer to single payer, unfortunately, by not bringing a real bill to the floor.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

for you own sake you better hope not

Yep, anyone who is still pushing single payer is not paying attention:

1) Charlie Gard
2) NHS announcing that they will not treat smokers or obese persons
3) More issues with waiting times in Canada and Great Britain
4) More VA issues coming to light (CNN published a report that billions spent on the system after the wait time scandal actually made some things worse)
5) France, despite having universal health care, had 26% of their patients forego care due to financial concerns. The "social security" system now eats up so much of their budget they are looking to have the complementary private market make up the difference, but they will charge acturial valid premiums which will result in "unequal" care.
6) Activists in Germany are trying to make private health insurance illegal, because it so much better than the universal coverage it is "unequal".

Terri Shiavo anyone?

[WestEndHokie39]

Step closer to single payer, unfortunately, by not bringing a real bill to the floor.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

for you own sake you better hope not

Yep, anyone who is still pushing single payer is not paying attention:

1) Charlie Gard
2) NHS announcing that they will not treat smokers or obese persons
3) More issues with waiting times in Canada and Great Britain
4) More VA issues coming to light (CNN published a report that billions spent on the system after the wait time scandal actually made some things worse)
5) France, despite having universal health care, had 26% of their patients forego care due to financial concerns. The "social security" system now eats up so much of their budget they are looking to have the complementary private market make up the difference, but they will charge acturial valid premiums which will result in "unequal" care.
6) Activists in Germany are trying to make private health insurance illegal, because it so much better than the universal coverage it is "unequal".

Terri Shiavo anyone?

I don't understand what point you are making.

[TheH2]

Step closer to single payer, unfortunately, by not bringing a real bill to the floor.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

for you own sake you better hope not

Yep, anyone who is still pushing single payer is not paying attention:

1) Charlie Gard
2) NHS announcing that they will not treat smokers or obese persons
3) More issues with waiting times in Canada and Great Britain
4) More VA issues coming to light (CNN published a report that billions spent on the system after the wait time scandal actually made some things worse)
5) France, despite having universal health care, had 26% of their patients forego care due to financial concerns. The "social security" system now eats up so much of their budget they are looking to have the complementary private market make up the difference, but they will charge acturial valid premiums which will result in "unequal" care.
6) Activists in Germany are trying to make private health insurance illegal, because it so much better than the universal coverage it is "unequal".

Terri Shiavo anyone?

I don't understand what point you are making.

Charlie Gard happens in the U.S. It's a function of treatment being really expensive and no one wanting to pay for it.

[133743Hokie]

Step closer to single payer, unfortunately, by not bringing a real bill to the floor.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

for you own sake you better hope not

Yep, anyone who is still pushing single payer is not paying attention:

1) Charlie Gard
2) NHS announcing that they will not treat smokers or obese persons
3) More issues with waiting times in Canada and Great Britain
4) More VA issues coming to light (CNN published a report that billions spent on the system after the wait time scandal actually made some things worse)
5) France, despite having universal health care, had 26% of their patients forego care due to financial concerns. The "social security" system now eats up so much of their budget they are looking to have the complementary private market make up the difference, but they will charge acturial valid premiums which will result in "unequal" care.
6) Activists in Germany are trying to make private health insurance illegal, because it so much better than the universal coverage it is "unequal".

Do you have a source for #2, #5?

not sure why this is hard to figure out, does medicare work really well? No, massive fraud, to have good care you have to buy a supplemental policy THRU INSURANCE COMPANIES, does VA care work well? No

WE have real world examples in the USA, never mind the issues in actual single payer countries

Medicare covers just about everything. Supplemental insurance (Medi-Gap) is just that, a secondary policy to cover those amounts that Medicare doesn't. In the end, the two combined leave a senior with limited OOP expense.

[awesome guy]

Step closer to single payer, unfortunately, by not bringing a real bill to the floor.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

for you own sake you better hope not

Yep, anyone who is still pushing single payer is not paying attention:

1) Charlie Gard
2) NHS announcing that they will not treat smokers or obese persons
3) More issues with waiting times in Canada and Great Britain
4) More VA issues coming to light (CNN published a report that billions spent on the system after the wait time scandal actually made some things worse)
5) France, despite having universal health care, had 26% of their patients forego care due to financial concerns. The "social security" system now eats up so much of their budget they are looking to have the complementary private market make up the difference, but they will charge acturial valid premiums which will result in "unequal" care.
6) Activists in Germany are trying to make private health insurance illegal, because it so much better than the universal coverage it is "unequal".

Terri Shiavo anyone?

I don't understand what point you are making.

Charlie Gard happens in the U.S. It's a function of treatment being really expensive and no one wanting to pay for it.

No it doesn't, the government doesn't force sick people to die in America. I'm sure you'll claim to be right regardless.

[WestEndHokie39]

Step closer to single payer, unfortunately, by not bringing a real bill to the floor.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

for you own sake you better hope not

Yep, anyone who is still pushing single payer is not paying attention:

1) Charlie Gard
2) NHS announcing that they will not treat smokers or obese persons
3) More issues with waiting times in Canada and Great Britain
4) More VA issues coming to light (CNN published a report that billions spent on the system after the wait time scandal actually made some things worse)
5) France, despite having universal health care, had 26% of their patients forego care due to financial concerns. The "social security" system now eats up so much of their budget they are looking to have the complementary private market make up the difference, but they will charge acturial valid premiums which will result in "unequal" care.
6) Activists in Germany are trying to make private health insurance illegal, because it so much better than the universal coverage it is "unequal".

Terri Shiavo anyone?

I don't understand what point you are making.

Charlie Gard happens in the U.S. It's a function of treatment being really expensive and no one wanting to pay for it.

Schiavo had nothing to do with expense- it was all about quality of life.

Charlie Gard's parents wanted to try a last ditch desperate treatment that was already paid for.

Not anything alike...

[USN_Hokie]

I'm sure McCain went to through the VA for his tumor treatment...didn't he?

Ha....

Mayo Clinic hospital in Phoenix, AZ.

[TheH2]

No it doesn't, the government doesn't force sick people to die in America. I'm sure you'll claim to be right regardless.

Death panels!!!!!

Yes, if the government (or insurance company) rejects the treatment. The UK was of the opinion that the treatment wouldn't help. Insurance companies and medicare make that judgement constantly.

[cwtcr hokie]

Step closer to single payer, unfortunately, by not bringing a real bill to the floor.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

for you own sake you better hope not

Yep, anyone who is still pushing single payer is not paying attention:

1) Charlie Gard
2) NHS announcing that they will not treat smokers or obese persons
3) More issues with waiting times in Canada and Great Britain
4) More VA issues coming to light (CNN published a report that billions spent on the system after the wait time scandal actually made some things worse)
5) France, despite having universal health care, had 26% of their patients forego care due to financial concerns. The "social security" system now eats up so much of their budget they are looking to have the complementary private market make up the difference, but they will charge acturial valid premiums which will result in "unequal" care.
6) Activists in Germany are trying to make private health insurance illegal, because it so much better than the universal coverage it is "unequal".

Terri Shiavo anyone?

I don't understand what point you are making.

Charlie Gard happens in the U.S. It's a function of treatment being really expensive and no one wanting to pay for it.

I agree, those decisions are made all the time, from what I have read of single payer I would prefer the insurance model

[cwtcr hokie]

Step closer to single payer, unfortunately, by not bringing a real bill to the floor.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

for you own sake you better hope not

Yep, anyone who is still pushing single payer is not paying attention:

1) Charlie Gard
2) NHS announcing that they will not treat smokers or obese persons
3) More issues with waiting times in Canada and Great Britain
4) More VA issues coming to light (CNN published a report that billions spent on the system after the wait time scandal actually made some things worse)
5) France, despite having universal health care, had 26% of their patients forego care due to financial concerns. The "social security" system now eats up so much of their budget they are looking to have the complementary private market make up the difference, but they will charge acturial valid premiums which will result in "unequal" care.
6) Activists in Germany are trying to make private health insurance illegal, because it so much better than the universal coverage it is "unequal".

Terri Shiavo anyone?

I don't understand what point you are making.

Charlie Gard happens in the U.S. It's a function of treatment being really expensive and no one wanting to pay for it.

No it doesn't, the government doesn't force sick people to die in America. I'm sure you'll claim to be right regardless.[/quote]

insurance companies do tho, the difference in the Gard case was the UK gov. took the parental rights away more or less

[awesome guy]

No it doesn't, the government doesn't force sick people to die in America. I'm sure you'll claim to be right regardless.

Death panels!!!!!

Yes, if the government (or insurance company) rejects the treatment. The UK was of the opinion that the treatment wouldn't help. Insurance companies and medicare make that judgement constantly.

They don't ban getting help via the private system unlike the UK.

[TheH2]

I agree, those decisions are made all the time, from what I have read of single payer I would prefer the insurance model

You're stupid... just kidding . That's a reasonable opinion. I agree in a nuanced way. I think the U.S. should do a better job with cost/benefit analysis in terms of what you get for a treatment. That would give insurance better information in what to approve/not approve.

[TheH2]

insurance companies do tho, the difference in the Gard case was the UK gov. took the parental rights away more or less

The U.S. will as well:
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2009/09/0 ... with-chemo

[USN_Hokie]

No it doesn't, the government doesn't force sick people to die in America. I'm sure you'll claim to be right regardless.

Death panels!!!!!

Yes, if the government (or insurance company) rejects the treatment. The UK was of the opinion that the treatment wouldn't help. Insurance companies and medicare make that judgement constantly.

No.