Is it natural to feel as if you have to pick a side?
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Is it natural to feel as if you have to pick a side?
Or does it just seem that way on the internet? My wife and I were talking about this last night and how we've noticed this phenomenon more and more but are wondering if it's just our bubble.
During the BLM and Occupy protests there were some damaging events that happened. Initially, I supported the initial messaging of both groups (I don't plan on debating those right now) but felt that the messaging got away from them and was critical of a lot of their actions. Why anyone thinks violence or causing property damage is appropriate baffles me. What bothered me was how quick one side wanted to condemn "the other side" and how that "other side" make excuses for their actions or outright ignored them. Why was it so hard FOR everyone to condemn them.
Now this weekend happens, and I noticed the same thing. This board is a perfect example, highlighting all the things that the Antifa/"anti-protestors" are doing, make excusing for their actions, and worse of all: not going all in against white supremacists/nazis/etc. It's as if conservative leaning people feel as if they have to pick that side...DONT. You can still post the reporters getting assaulted by the Antifa marchers AND post the videos of the young man being beat up by the "unite the right" protestors. You can still be outraged at Nazis mowing people over and not feel like you're choosing a side. You don't have to qualify your outrage with a whataboutism.
Is this a new phenomenon?
(I noticed a lot of users were questioning me about this in a couple of the threads. On the leftist groups who have committed atrocities: "OK. Alright. I disavow. OK?" I don't support that sort of tactic and I have no problem calling it out. But it baffles me that uniting against white supremacists is so hard.)
During the BLM and Occupy protests there were some damaging events that happened. Initially, I supported the initial messaging of both groups (I don't plan on debating those right now) but felt that the messaging got away from them and was critical of a lot of their actions. Why anyone thinks violence or causing property damage is appropriate baffles me. What bothered me was how quick one side wanted to condemn "the other side" and how that "other side" make excuses for their actions or outright ignored them. Why was it so hard FOR everyone to condemn them.
Now this weekend happens, and I noticed the same thing. This board is a perfect example, highlighting all the things that the Antifa/"anti-protestors" are doing, make excusing for their actions, and worse of all: not going all in against white supremacists/nazis/etc. It's as if conservative leaning people feel as if they have to pick that side...DONT. You can still post the reporters getting assaulted by the Antifa marchers AND post the videos of the young man being beat up by the "unite the right" protestors. You can still be outraged at Nazis mowing people over and not feel like you're choosing a side. You don't have to qualify your outrage with a whataboutism.
Is this a new phenomenon?
(I noticed a lot of users were questioning me about this in a couple of the threads. On the leftist groups who have committed atrocities: "OK. Alright. I disavow. OK?" I don't support that sort of tactic and I have no problem calling it out. But it baffles me that uniting against white supremacists is so hard.)
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Re: Is it natural to feel as if you have to pick a side?
And I'm totally guilty of this at times. I didn't go out of my way to be as outrage about the awful acts that were associated with OWS/BLM like I have with what these white supremacists are responsible for. If I'm just thinking out loud, it may be because at its varying roots I empathize with what OWS/BLM initially stood for (or what I thought): OWS = curbing corporate greed and BLM = justice for racial inequality. Opinions.
Im guessing the same is happening with white supremacists but for many people, it's hard to empathize with what they initially stand for. I know initially this weekend was to protest the statues being taken down but it would be dishonest to say that didn't end up being the messaging of the majority of the groups that came.
Im guessing the same is happening with white supremacists but for many people, it's hard to empathize with what they initially stand for. I know initially this weekend was to protest the statues being taken down but it would be dishonest to say that didn't end up being the messaging of the majority of the groups that came.
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Re: Is it natural to feel as if you have to pick a side?
They're all morons with too much time on their hands...I think they all need to be laid.
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Re: Is it natural to feel as if you have to pick a side?
You accused me of being a Nazi defender for waiting for The evidence to come out. You're certainly part of the problem you now see. I've consistently called Charlottesville a collision of morons and assholes, IE they're all wrong and loathsome. But you call this defense for some odd and irrational reason.
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Re: Is it natural to feel as if you have to pick a side?
You can't call out the left.......if you do, your a Nazi, or something......awesome guy wrote:You accused me of being a Nazi defender for waiting for The evidence to come out. You're certainly part of the problem you now see. I've consistently called Charlottesville a collision of morons and assholes, IE they're all wrong and loathsome. But you call this defense for some odd and irrational reason.
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Re: Is it natural to feel as if you have to pick a side?
Yep. They're judgemental assholes.HokieHam wrote:You can't call out the left.......if you do, your a Nazi, or something......awesome guy wrote:You accused me of being a Nazi defender for waiting for The evidence to come out. You're certainly part of the problem you now see. I've consistently called Charlottesville a collision of morons and assholes, IE they're all wrong and loathsome. But you call this defense for some odd and irrational reason.
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Re: Is it natural to feel as if you have to pick a side?
I think part of the problem here is that some people are able to see that there were people on both sides that were doing very bad and violent things, and they are conflating or confusing that with "defending the Nazis." By far, the worst atrocity that happened on Saturday was the guy taking his car and ramming into that crowd of people. Nothing else comes close. But that does not mean that people on the other side that were engaging in violence should get a pass even if their transgressions what not nearly as bad. They still engaged in violence and they should be held accountable.
Also, when I see people saying things like "Nazis should not have the right to free speech" or "Nazis should not be granted Constitutional protections," my reaction to that is to defend the Constitution rights of all Americans - no matter if they are Nazis or any other group that has vile beliefs. They are still granted the right to peaceful assembly and protest just like any other group. And the other problem here is that we have seen the term "Nazi" being thrown around a little too casually for the last few years. Did any of these people commit mass genocide? If they did I missed it.
But according to the left, anyone that supports Trump is a Nazi, and Nazis should not be granted Constitutional rights, ergo Trump supporters should be stripped of their rights. You're damn right I'm not going to sit by and let that narrative unfold.
Also, when I see people saying things like "Nazis should not have the right to free speech" or "Nazis should not be granted Constitutional protections," my reaction to that is to defend the Constitution rights of all Americans - no matter if they are Nazis or any other group that has vile beliefs. They are still granted the right to peaceful assembly and protest just like any other group. And the other problem here is that we have seen the term "Nazi" being thrown around a little too casually for the last few years. Did any of these people commit mass genocide? If they did I missed it.
But according to the left, anyone that supports Trump is a Nazi, and Nazis should not be granted Constitutional rights, ergo Trump supporters should be stripped of their rights. You're damn right I'm not going to sit by and let that narrative unfold.
Last edited by UpstateSCHokie on Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is it natural to feel as if you have to pick a side?
I don't agree with any white supremacy crap being spewed but I do support the right of people to protest (not riot!!!) That is what is being missed in this, Trump was 100% correct, both sides are wrong. Any idiot screaming white power is just as dumb as any idiot screaming black power. And both are racist folks. The reality is both sides could have marched and protested and made their point and everything would have been fine. But when one side decides that the other side does not have any right to express their views and attacks them or each other it spirals into the chaos we see. I protest at the ballot box, don't have time to go march around making a fool of myselfCpt Jagdish wrote:Or does it just seem that way on the internet? My wife and I were talking about this last night and how we've noticed this phenomenon more and more but are wondering if it's just our bubble.
During the BLM and Occupy protests there were some damaging events that happened. Initially, I supported the initial messaging of both groups (I don't plan on debating those right now) but felt that the messaging got away from them and was critical of a lot of their actions. Why anyone thinks violence or causing property damage is appropriate baffles me. What bothered me was how quick one side wanted to condemn "the other side" and how that "other side" make excuses for their actions or outright ignored them. Why was it so hard FOR everyone to condemn them.
Now this weekend happens, and I noticed the same thing. This board is a perfect example, highlighting all the things that the Antifa/"anti-protestors" are doing, make excusing for their actions, and worse of all: not going all in against white supremacists/nazis/etc. It's as if conservative leaning people feel as if they have to pick that side...DONT. You can still post the reporters getting assaulted by the Antifa marchers AND post the videos of the young man being beat up by the "unite the right" protestors. You can still be outraged at Nazis mowing people over and not feel like you're choosing a side. You don't have to qualify your outrage with a whataboutism.
Is this a new phenomenon?
(I noticed a lot of users were questioning me about this in a couple of the threads. On the leftist groups who have committed atrocities: "OK. Alright. I disavow. OK?" I don't support that sort of tactic and I have no problem calling it out. But it baffles me that uniting against white supremacists is so hard.)
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Re: Is it natural to feel as if you have to pick a side?
So what exactly are you and others looking for from others to demonstrate they oppose white supremacy? Would a facebook meme suffice? Do I need to parade around somewhere with a sandwich board? Show up at a protest?Cpt Jagdish wrote:Or does it just seem that way on the internet? My wife and I were talking about this last night and how we've noticed this phenomenon more and more but are wondering if it's just our bubble.
During the BLM and Occupy protests there were some damaging events that happened. Initially, I supported the initial messaging of both groups (I don't plan on debating those right now) but felt that the messaging got away from them and was critical of a lot of their actions. Why anyone thinks violence or causing property damage is appropriate baffles me. What bothered me was how quick one side wanted to condemn "the other side" and how that "other side" make excuses for their actions or outright ignored them. Why was it so hard FOR everyone to condemn them.
Now this weekend happens, and I noticed the same thing. This board is a perfect example, highlighting all the things that the Antifa/"anti-protestors" are doing, make excusing for their actions, and worse of all: not going all in against white supremacists/nazis/etc. It's as if conservative leaning people feel as if they have to pick that side...DONT. You can still post the reporters getting assaulted by the Antifa marchers AND post the videos of the young man being beat up by the "unite the right" protestors. You can still be outraged at Nazis mowing people over and not feel like you're choosing a side. You don't have to qualify your outrage with a whataboutism.
Is this a new phenomenon?
(I noticed a lot of users were questioning me about this in a couple of the threads. On the leftist groups who have committed atrocities: "OK. Alright. I disavow. OK?" I don't support that sort of tactic and I have no problem calling it out. But it baffles me that uniting against white supremacists is so hard.)
Think about it. To gather a couple of hundred people in Charlottesville, Unite the Right had to bring people in from Ohio and Michigan, which demonstrates what a fringe movement it is and how miniscule the support.
Being a libertarian, my "side" is liberty and constitutional rights. OWS, despite their commendable goal, was filled with statists who couldn't explain how markets work if their lives depended on it. BLM was based on a lie ("Hands Up, Don't Shoot") and for some reason continued to glorify Brown and Martin despite the forensic evidence. I didn't vote for Trump and have mixed feelings about his administration, but it's a direct result of the continued support for tyranny and denial of natural rights comiing from the left. Bluntly said, the left are bullies who want to punish anyone who steps of the SJW groupthink.
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Re: Is it natural to feel as if you have to pick a side?
Yep. Captain Jangleberry is certainly part of the "Trump and supporters are racist!" crowd.UpstateSCHokie wrote:I think part of the problem here is that some people are able to see that there were people on both sides that were doing very bad and violent things, and they are conflating or confusing that with "defending the Nazis." By far, the worst atrocity that happened on Saturday was the guy taking his car and ramming into that crowd of people. Nothing else comes close. But that does not mean that people on the other side that were engaging in violence should get a pass even if their transgressions what not nearly as bad. They still engaged in violence and they should be held accountable.
Also, when I see people saying things like "Nazis should not have the right to free speech" or "Nazis should not be granted Constitutional protections," my reaction to that is to defend the Constitution rights of all Americans - no matter if they are Nazis or any other group that has vile beliefs. They are still granted the right to peaceful assembly and protest just like any other group. And the other problem here is that we have seen the term "Nazi" being thrown around a little too casually for the last few years. Did any of these people commit mass genocide? If they did I missed it.
But according to the left, anyone that supports Trump is a Nazi, and Nazis should not be granted Constitutional rights, ergo Trump supporters should be stripped of their rights. You're damn right I'm not going to sit by and let that narrative unfold.
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Re: Is it natural to feel as if you have to pick a side?
UpstateSCHokie wrote:And the other problem here is that we have seen the term "Nazi" being thrown around a little too casually for the last few years.
Donald Trump is a stupid man's idea of a smart man, a poor man's idea of a rich man, and a weak man's idea of a strong man.
Re: Is it natural to feel as if you have to pick a side?
I haven't picked any sides. I'd be fine with walling off the whole protest area and walking away. I hate them all.Cpt Jagdish wrote:Or does it just seem that way on the internet? My wife and I were talking about this last night and how we've noticed this phenomenon more and more but are wondering if it's just our bubble.
During the BLM and Occupy protests there were some damaging events that happened. Initially, I supported the initial messaging of both groups (I don't plan on debating those right now) but felt that the messaging got away from them and was critical of a lot of their actions. Why anyone thinks violence or causing property damage is appropriate baffles me. What bothered me was how quick one side wanted to condemn "the other side" and how that "other side" make excuses for their actions or outright ignored them. Why was it so hard FOR everyone to condemn them.
Now this weekend happens, and I noticed the same thing. This board is a perfect example, highlighting all the things that the Antifa/"anti-protestors" are doing, make excusing for their actions, and worse of all: not going all in against white supremacists/nazis/etc. It's as if conservative leaning people feel as if they have to pick that side...DONT. You can still post the reporters getting assaulted by the Antifa marchers AND post the videos of the young man being beat up by the "unite the right" protestors. You can still be outraged at Nazis mowing people over and not feel like you're choosing a side. You don't have to qualify your outrage with a whataboutism.
Is this a new phenomenon?
(I noticed a lot of users were questioning me about this in a couple of the threads. On the leftist groups who have committed atrocities: "OK. Alright. I disavow. OK?" I don't support that sort of tactic and I have no problem calling it out. But it baffles me that uniting against white supremacists is so hard.)
Here's the problem: we currently live in a hyper-sensitized society where not virtue signaling for/against something is perceived as being respectively against/for that thing.
Here's why: everybody wants a cause to fight for. It's human. However, social media, news, politics, etc. in the US are mostly dominated by..... white people who don't visually fit with any of these groups. So, these folks (dominated by women I'll add) are forced to either physically (sign, t-shirt, etc.) or verbally virtue signal for their cause. In the latter case, they have to attack those who don't virtue signal like them because otherwise, they're just crazy loons.
I think they're absolutely batshirt crazy. I refuse to participate in that crap because A: It's crazy; and, B: If you capitulate to their virtue signaling, they just escalate - like I said, the problem is group identity, not someone being a racist (for example). So they will just invent new ways to exclude you.
This all stems from people (again, mostly women...I think most of the guys are secretly just trying to get laid) not having faith in anything (God, children, a spouse), so they either create one (global warming, veganism) or join one (BLM (at least for whites)
You can't drive down a gentrified street in DC without seeing one of these:
This is my favorite though. I saw a sign like this once in DC. I'd be so embarrassed if I was Muslim and my neighbor put a sign like this in her/his yard:
This is virtue signaling to the next level.
Long story short: there is no problem. Only something like 50 (if that) people bothered to show up and support the white separatist groups. Posting 50 pictures of kittens denouncing the kkk on Facebook doesn't mean the person who doesn't tacitly supports the kkk.
Relax.
Last edited by USN_Hokie on Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Is it natural to feel as if you have to pick a side?
Yep. If you don't unilaterally condemn NAZI's they call you one. I condemn all parties who will use violence to quell speech. Anything less is un-American.WestEndHokie39 wrote:So what exactly are you and others looking for from others to demonstrate they oppose white supremacy? Would a facebook meme suffice? Do I need to parade around somewhere with a sandwich board? Show up at a protest?Cpt Jagdish wrote:Or does it just seem that way on the internet? My wife and I were talking about this last night and how we've noticed this phenomenon more and more but are wondering if it's just our bubble.
During the BLM and Occupy protests there were some damaging events that happened. Initially, I supported the initial messaging of both groups (I don't plan on debating those right now) but felt that the messaging got away from them and was critical of a lot of their actions. Why anyone thinks violence or causing property damage is appropriate baffles me. What bothered me was how quick one side wanted to condemn "the other side" and how that "other side" make excuses for their actions or outright ignored them. Why was it so hard FOR everyone to condemn them.
Now this weekend happens, and I noticed the same thing. This board is a perfect example, highlighting all the things that the Antifa/"anti-protestors" are doing, make excusing for their actions, and worse of all: not going all in against white supremacists/nazis/etc. It's as if conservative leaning people feel as if they have to pick that side...DONT. You can still post the reporters getting assaulted by the Antifa marchers AND post the videos of the young man being beat up by the "unite the right" protestors. You can still be outraged at Nazis mowing people over and not feel like you're choosing a side. You don't have to qualify your outrage with a whataboutism.
Is this a new phenomenon?
(I noticed a lot of users were questioning me about this in a couple of the threads. On the leftist groups who have committed atrocities: "OK. Alright. I disavow. OK?" I don't support that sort of tactic and I have no problem calling it out. But it baffles me that uniting against white supremacists is so hard.)
Think about it. To gather a couple of hundred people in Charlottesville, Unite the Right had to bring people in from Ohio and Michigan, which demonstrates what a fringe movement it is and how miniscule the support.
Being a libertarian, my "side" is liberty and constitutional rights. OWS, despite their commendable goal, was filled with statists who couldn't explain how markets work if their lives depended on it. BLM was based on a lie ("Hands Up, Don't Shoot") and for some reason continued to glorify Brown and Martin despite the forensic evidence. I didn't vote for Trump and have mixed feelings about his administration, but it's a direct result of the continued support for tyranny and denial of natural rights comiing from the left. Bluntly said, the left are bullies who want to punish anyone who steps of the SJW groupthink.
"I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." - Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Is it natural to feel as if you have to pick a side?
Do you really think it's a battle of socialists vs communists?HooFighter wrote:UpstateSCHokie wrote:And the other problem here is that we have seen the term "Nazi" being thrown around a little too casually for the last few years.
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Re: Is it natural to feel as if you have to pick a side?
UpstateSCHokie wrote:I think part of the problem here is that some people are able to see that there were people on both sides that were doing very bad and violent things, and they are conflating or confusing that with "defending the Nazis." By far, the worst atrocity that happened on Saturday was the guy taking his car and ramming into that crowd of people. Nothing else comes close. But that does not mean that people on the other side that were engaging in violence should get a pass even if their transgressions what not nearly as bad. They still engaged in violence and they should be held accountable.
Also, when I see people saying things like "Nazis should not have the right to free speech" or "Nazis should not be granted Constitutional protections," my reaction to that is to defend the Constitution rights of all Americans - no matter if they are Nazis or any other group that has vile beliefs. They are still granted the right to peaceful assembly and protest just like any other group. And the other problem here is that we have seen the term "Nazi" being thrown around a little too casually for the last few years. Did any of these people commit mass genocide? If they did I missed it.
But according to the left, anyone that supports Trump is a Nazi, and Nazis should not be granted Constitutional rights, ergo Trump supporters should be stripped of their rights. You're damn right I'm not going to sit by and let that narrative unfold.
Thanks! This is a good response. My problem is two things and it isn't isolated to this past weekend:
1. When condemning one act (the car plowing into a crowd for example) against "not their team", people feel as if they have to qualify it with whataboutism (well, they're responsible for protesting illegally on a street). That bothers me. Why do people feel they HAVE to do that. I saw it with BLM as well (people committing the violence are wrong but what about that white police offer...)
2. That's a pretty broad brush and exactly what I'm talking about. Are there buttholes that feel that way, yes. But at some point the cycle has to stop. I try to call out individuals. If someone is going to defend someone for ramming their car into a crowd and not walk back on their statement, then they should be called out.
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Re: Is it natural to feel as if you have to pick a side?
shocked there are some morons in the crowd... of course the BLM folks are all really really smart (but choose to ignore any evidence they disagree with)HooFighter wrote:UpstateSCHokie wrote:And the other problem here is that we have seen the term "Nazi" being thrown around a little too casually for the last few years.
Re: Is it natural to feel as if you have to pick a side?
awesome guy wrote:Do you really think it's a battle of socialists vs communists?HooFighter wrote:UpstateSCHokie wrote:And the other problem here is that we have seen the term "Nazi" being thrown around a little too casually for the last few years.
It's a battle between dumb-fvcks.
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Re: Is it natural to feel as if you have to pick a side?
Yep. Hoof is a warrior in this battle of retards.HokieJoe wrote:awesome guy wrote:Do you really think it's a battle of socialists vs communists?HooFighter wrote:UpstateSCHokie wrote:And the other problem here is that we have seen the term "Nazi" being thrown around a little too casually for the last few years.
It's a battle between dumb-fvcks.
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Re: Is it natural to feel as if you have to pick a side?
"So what exactly are you and others looking for from others to demonstrate they oppose white supremacy?"WestEndHokie39 wrote:So what exactly are you and others looking for from others to demonstrate they oppose white supremacy? Would a facebook meme suffice? Do I need to parade around somewhere with a sandwich board? Show up at a protest?Cpt Jagdish wrote:Or does it just seem that way on the internet? My wife and I were talking about this last night and how we've noticed this phenomenon more and more but are wondering if it's just our bubble.
During the BLM and Occupy protests there were some damaging events that happened. Initially, I supported the initial messaging of both groups (I don't plan on debating those right now) but felt that the messaging got away from them and was critical of a lot of their actions. Why anyone thinks violence or causing property damage is appropriate baffles me. What bothered me was how quick one side wanted to condemn "the other side" and how that "other side" make excuses for their actions or outright ignored them. Why was it so hard FOR everyone to condemn them.
Now this weekend happens, and I noticed the same thing. This board is a perfect example, highlighting all the things that the Antifa/"anti-protestors" are doing, make excusing for their actions, and worse of all: not going all in against white supremacists/nazis/etc. It's as if conservative leaning people feel as if they have to pick that side...DONT. You can still post the reporters getting assaulted by the Antifa marchers AND post the videos of the young man being beat up by the "unite the right" protestors. You can still be outraged at Nazis mowing people over and not feel like you're choosing a side. You don't have to qualify your outrage with a whataboutism.
Is this a new phenomenon?
(I noticed a lot of users were questioning me about this in a couple of the threads. On the leftist groups who have committed atrocities: "OK. Alright. I disavow. OK?" I don't support that sort of tactic and I have no problem calling it out. But it baffles me that uniting against white supremacists is so hard.)
Think about it. To gather a couple of hundred people in Charlottesville, Unite the Right had to bring people in from Ohio and Michigan, which demonstrates what a fringe movement it is and how miniscule the support.
Being a libertarian, my "side" is liberty and constitutional rights. OWS, despite their commendable goal, was filled with statists who couldn't explain how markets work if their lives depended on it. BLM was based on a lie ("Hands Up, Don't Shoot") and for some reason continued to glorify Brown and Martin despite the forensic evidence. I didn't vote for Trump and have mixed feelings about his administration, but it's a direct result of the continued support for tyranny and denial of natural rights comiing from the left. Bluntly said, the left are bullies who want to punish anyone who steps of the SJW groupthink.
I'm going to be walking towards a utopian path here but: I'd love to live in a world where atrocities are called out and not qualified with having to point the finger at someone else.
" which demonstrates what a fringe movement it is and how miniscule the support."
My issue with this statement is that it obviously does not feel like a fringe movement to a lot of people. Why do we dismiss those people as overreacting? And if they are overreacting, what's the solution? Calling them names?
Re: Is it natural to feel as if you have to pick a side?
I like how his Nazi flag was obviously just removed from its packaging. I wonder how many times he's carried that flag before...HooFighter wrote:UpstateSCHokie wrote:And the other problem here is that we have seen the term "Nazi" being thrown around a little too casually for the last few years.
That's besides the point, though. Does carrying a LGBT flag make you gay? Does waiving a Chinese flag make you Chinese? Calling some idiot carrying a Nazi flag a Nazi is a disservice to the people who fought or endured real nazis.
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Re: Is it natural to feel as if you have to pick a side?
nobody defends anyone purposefully driving into other humans, I do say tho that being in a street and thinking a human can do battle with a car or truck is not very smart. IN the Charlotte BLM riots the folks flooded into the interstates around downtown charlotte, different situation totally. The idiot blm folks in that case were very lucky that nobody was run over and I would not have blamed anyone for not stopping as the people were dumb to think that a human should be stopping traffic on a high speed road. On a small city street it is much different but again if my car is surrounded and the crowd is hostile I will use the superior force of the car to remove myselfCpt Jagdish wrote:UpstateSCHokie wrote:I think part of the problem here is that some people are able to see that there were people on both sides that were doing very bad and violent things, and they are conflating or confusing that with "defending the Nazis." By far, the worst atrocity that happened on Saturday was the guy taking his car and ramming into that crowd of people. Nothing else comes close. But that does not mean that people on the other side that were engaging in violence should get a pass even if their transgressions what not nearly as bad. They still engaged in violence and they should be held accountable.
Also, when I see people saying things like "Nazis should not have the right to free speech" or "Nazis should not be granted Constitutional protections," my reaction to that is to defend the Constitution rights of all Americans - no matter if they are Nazis or any other group that has vile beliefs. They are still granted the right to peaceful assembly and protest just like any other group. And the other problem here is that we have seen the term "Nazi" being thrown around a little too casually for the last few years. Did any of these people commit mass genocide? If they did I missed it.
But according to the left, anyone that supports Trump is a Nazi, and Nazis should not be granted Constitutional rights, ergo Trump supporters should be stripped of their rights. You're damn right I'm not going to sit by and let that narrative unfold.
Thanks! This is a good response. My problem is two things and it isn't isolated to this past weekend:
1. When condemning one act (the car plowing into a crowd for example) against "not their team", people feel as if they have to qualify it with whataboutism (well, they're responsible for protesting illegally on a street). That bothers me. Why do people feel they HAVE to do that. I saw it with BLM as well (people committing the violence are wrong but what about that white police offer...)
2. That's a pretty broad brush and exactly what I'm talking about. Are there buttholes that feel that way, yes. But at some point the cycle has to stop. I try to call out individuals. If someone is going to defend someone for ramming their car into a crowd and not walk back on their statement, then they should be called out.
the Cville guy was obvioulsy different as he went into the area to create havoc
Re: Is it natural to feel as if you have to pick a side?
In what world is that not the more measured, balanced, rational approach?Cpt Jagdish wrote: 1. When condemning one act (the car plowing into a crowd for example) against "not their team", people feel as if they have to qualify it with whataboutism (well, they're responsible for protesting illegally on a street). That bothers me. Why do people feel they HAVE to do that. I saw it with BLM as well (people committing the violence are wrong but what about that white police offer...)
You're complaining that folks aren't joining the proverbial mob. No thanks.
- RiverguyVT
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Re: Is it natural to feel as if you have to pick a side?
It seems you started this thread with good intentions. Part of what you see as a problem is how you are choosing to regard events in the first place.Cpt Jagdish wrote:"So what exactly are you and others looking for from others to demonstrate they oppose white supremacy?"WestEndHokie39 wrote:So what exactly are you and others looking for from others to demonstrate they oppose white supremacy? Would a facebook meme suffice? Do I need to parade around somewhere with a sandwich board? Show up at a protest?Cpt Jagdish wrote:Or does it just seem that way on the internet? My wife and I were talking about this last night and how we've noticed this phenomenon more and more but are wondering if it's just our bubble.
During the BLM and Occupy protests there were some damaging events that happened. Initially, I supported the initial messaging of both groups (I don't plan on debating those right now) but felt that the messaging got away from them and was critical of a lot of their actions. Why anyone thinks violence or causing property damage is appropriate baffles me. What bothered me was how quick one side wanted to condemn "the other side" and how that "other side" make excuses for their actions or outright ignored them. Why was it so hard FOR everyone to condemn them.
Now this weekend happens, and I noticed the same thing. This board is a perfect example, highlighting all the things that the Antifa/"anti-protestors" are doing, make excusing for their actions, and worse of all: not going all in against white supremacists/nazis/etc. It's as if conservative leaning people feel as if they have to pick that side...DONT. You can still post the reporters getting assaulted by the Antifa marchers AND post the videos of the young man being beat up by the "unite the right" protestors. You can still be outraged at Nazis mowing people over and not feel like you're choosing a side. You don't have to qualify your outrage with a whataboutism.
Is this a new phenomenon?
(I noticed a lot of users were questioning me about this in a couple of the threads. On the leftist groups who have committed atrocities: "OK. Alright. I disavow. OK?" I don't support that sort of tactic and I have no problem calling it out. But it baffles me that uniting against white supremacists is so hard.)
Think about it. To gather a couple of hundred people in Charlottesville, Unite the Right had to bring people in from Ohio and Michigan, which demonstrates what a fringe movement it is and how miniscule the support.
Being a libertarian, my "side" is liberty and constitutional rights. OWS, despite their commendable goal, was filled with statists who couldn't explain how markets work if their lives depended on it. BLM was based on a lie ("Hands Up, Don't Shoot") and for some reason continued to glorify Brown and Martin despite the forensic evidence. I didn't vote for Trump and have mixed feelings about his administration, but it's a direct result of the continued support for tyranny and denial of natural rights comiing from the left. Bluntly said, the left are bullies who want to punish anyone who steps of the SJW groupthink.
I'm going to be walking towards a utopian path here but: I'd love to live in a world where atrocities are called out and not qualified with having to point the finger at someone else.
" which demonstrates what a fringe movement it is and how miniscule the support."
My issue with this statement is that it obviously does not feel like a fringe movement to a lot of people. Why do we dismiss those people as overreacting? And if they are overreacting, what's the solution? Calling them names?
Feel? How people "feel" isn't something anyone can do anything about. Liberals "feel" when they should be engaging their brains. Nazism- It IS a fringe movement. "Feeling" otherwise doesn't change facts...the fact being, it is a very minor insignificant movement.
You admittedly suppoerted OWS and BLM. I'm reading between the lines, and understanding that your support is based on emotions. Ever do any research (here's where the thinking part comes in) on either movement's founders and organizers? That's some real evil, there. They're counting on people "feeling" but not thinking.
I looked around this board and saw plenty of nazi condemnation.
Who are you saying didn't condemn the nazis? And what would make you "feel" better about those condemnations?
Feelings are subjective. Hard to point-counter-point "feelings".
Last edited by RiverguyVT on Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
So I put (the dead dog) on her doorstep!
Salute the Marines
Soon we'll have planes that fly 22000 mph
"#PedoPete" = Hunter's name for his dad.
Salute the Marines
Soon we'll have planes that fly 22000 mph
"#PedoPete" = Hunter's name for his dad.
Re: Is it natural to feel as if you have to pick a side?
Oh, and since nazis and kittens were mentioned in this thread :
- awesome guy
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Re: Is it natural to feel as if you have to pick a side?
One sided outrage, like you display, drive division.
Unvaccinated,. mask free, and still alive.