CA:Brown Signs Bill Removing Penalty for Using Guns in Crime

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ip_law-hokie
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Re: CA:Brown Signs Bill Removing Penalty for Using Guns in C

Post by ip_law-hokie »

USN_Hokie wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote: OK. While that may have been the goal, the result was crazy sentences. This will always be the result when you remove discretion from the decision.


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True or false:

Longer prison sentences for violent crime = less violent crime.
True.
Why don't you want to reduce violent crime?
Did you ever get in fist fights as a kid?


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No. I've never initiated violence against another, let alone committed a violent crime.

I'm curious what you're point was, though. Are you arguing we're all violent and no different than rapists and murderers?
No. I’m arguing that living in some sort of police state where people are locked up for crazy amounts of time for relatively minor offenses reduces violent crime, but doing so imparts other costs to society.

You guys rail against “zero tolerance” type numbskullery all the time, for good reason. Mandatory sentencing requirements are the same thing.




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USN_Hokie
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Re: CA:Brown Signs Bill Removing Penalty for Using Guns in C

Post by USN_Hokie »

ip_law-hokie wrote: No. I’m arguing that living in some sort of police state where people are locked up for crazy amounts of time for relatively minor offenses reduces violent crime, but doing so imparts other costs to society.

You guys rail against “zero tolerance” type numbskullery all the time, for good reason. Mandatory sentencing requirements are the same thing.




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You think committing a crime with a deadly weapon is a "relatively minor offense?" That is the topic of this thread after all.

If robbing /raping/murdering/kidnapping /shooting at someone is a relatively minor offense, Im not sure how we can reach a consensus.

I don't really see this falling into the bucket of "zero tolerance", but I would agree that I generally prefer increased sentencing guidelines to mandatory add-ons. Let's not pretend this has anything to do with that, though. This is about Democrats serving their voter base.
Last edited by USN_Hokie on Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ip_law-hokie
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Re: CA:Brown Signs Bill Removing Penalty for Using Guns in C

Post by ip_law-hokie »

USN_Hokie wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote: No. I’m arguing that living in some sort of police state where people are locked up for crazy amounts of time for relatively minor offenses reduces violent crime, but doing so imparts other costs to society.

You guys rail against “zero tolerance” type numbskullery all the time, for good reason. Mandatory sentencing requirements are the same thing.




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You think committing a crime with a deadly weapon is a "relatively minor offense?" That is the topic of this thread after all.

If robbing /raping/murdering/kidnapping /shooting at someone is a relatively minor offense, Im not sure how we can reach a consensus.
I assumed that you would take my general point and recognize the general applicability of the statement to sentencing guidelines in general.

Your comment is relevant if mandatory sentences are required in order to incarcerate someone guilty of said offenses for life. That is a false premise.



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Re: CA:Brown Signs Bill Removing Penalty for Using Guns in C

Post by USN_Hokie »

ip_law-hokie wrote: Your comment is relevant if mandatory sentences are required in order to incarcerate someone guilty of said offenses for life. That is a false premise.



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A person robbing a pizza hut at gun point isn't going to get life. Removing the gun charge add-on will decrease the years someone like that is eligible for. The Democrat's entire premise for doing this is less prison time - I'm not sure how you could argue the opposite.
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Re: CA:Brown Signs Bill Removing Penalty for Using Guns in C

Post by ip_law-hokie »

USN_Hokie wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote: Your comment is relevant if mandatory sentences are required in order to incarcerate someone guilty of said offenses for life. That is a false premise.



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A person robbing a pizza hut at gun point isn't going to get life. Removing the gun charge add-on will decrease the years someone like that is eligible for. The Democrat's entire premise for doing this is less prison time - I'm not sure how you could argue the opposite.
The gun add-on is not being removed by the legislation. That’s another false premise.


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With their Cap’n and Chief Intelligence Officer having deserted them, River, Ham and Joe valiantly continue their whataboutismistic last stand of the DJT apology tour.
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Re: CA:Brown Signs Bill Removing Penalty for Using Guns in C

Post by USN_Hokie »

ip_law-hokie wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote: Your comment is relevant if mandatory sentences are required in order to incarcerate someone guilty of said offenses for life. That is a false premise.



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A person robbing a pizza hut at gun point isn't going to get life. Removing the gun charge add-on will decrease the years someone like that is eligible for. The Democrat's entire premise for doing this is less prison time - I'm not sure how you could argue the opposite.
The gun add-on is not being removed by the legislation. That’s another false premise.


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Are you trying to argue semantics? The gun "enhancement" was removed by legislation.
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ip_law-hokie
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Re: CA:Brown Signs Bill Removing Penalty for Using Guns in C

Post by ip_law-hokie »

USN_Hokie wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote: Your comment is relevant if mandatory sentences are required in order to incarcerate someone guilty of said offenses for life. That is a false premise.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
A person robbing a pizza hut at gun point isn't going to get life. Removing the gun charge add-on will decrease the years someone like that is eligible for. The Democrat's entire premise for doing this is less prison time - I'm not sure how you could argue the opposite.
The gun add-on is not being removed by the legislation. That’s another false premise.


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Are you trying to argue semantics? The gun "enhancement" was removed by legislation.
I understood that the mandatory sentencing guidelines associated with the enhancement were to be removed.


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With their Cap’n and Chief Intelligence Officer having deserted them, River, Ham and Joe valiantly continue their whataboutismistic last stand of the DJT apology tour.
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Re: CA:Brown Signs Bill Removing Penalty for Using Guns in C

Post by CFB Apologist »

ip_law-hokie wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote: True or false:

Longer prison sentences for violent crime = less violent crime.
True.
Why don't you want to reduce violent crime?
Did you ever get in fist fights as a kid?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
No. I've never initiated violence against another, let alone committed a violent crime.

I'm curious what you're point was, though. Are you arguing we're all violent and no different than rapists and murderers?
No. I’m arguing that living in some sort of police state where people are locked up for crazy amounts of time for relatively minor offenses reduces violent crime, but doing so imparts other costs to society.

You guys rail against “zero tolerance” type numbskullery all the time, for good reason. Mandatory sentencing requirements are the same thing.




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Can we as people with brains move on from this bullshit talking point/PC crap/ Liberal agenda- whatever you want to call it- where gun felons are some kind of hidden gem or value to society? That illegal immigrants that don't speak the language and are often part of larger crimes are some hidden value and gem to society? Can we please stop with the bullshit? It's dishonest garbage. A gun felon, multiple record felon is of NO value to society- they lost that privilege by committing violent crimes. There are no aspiring cancer researchers or heart surgeons doing time at Folsom - NONE. There are no former MS 13 bangers that are the next Mars rover designers- NONE. Let's leave the violent fringes on society where they belong for gods sake.
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UpstateSCHokie
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Re: CA:Brown Signs Bill Removing Penalty for Using Guns in C

Post by UpstateSCHokie »

CFB Apologist wrote: Can we as people with brains move on from this bullshit talking point/PC crap/ Liberal agenda- whatever you want to call it- where gun felons are some kind of hidden gem or value to society? That illegal immigrants that don't speak the language and are often part of larger crimes are some hidden value and gem to society? Can we please stop with the bullshit? It's dishonest garbage. A gun felon, multiple record felon is of NO value to society- they lost that privilege by committing violent crimes. There are no aspiring cancer researchers or heart surgeons doing time at Folsom - NONE. There are no former MS 13 bangers that are the next Mars rover designers- NONE. Let's leave the violent fringes on society where they belong for gods sake.

You're right of course. But these cretins tend to vote for Democrats, so Democrats see value in them.
Image

“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” ― Voltaire (1694 – 1778)
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ip_law-hokie
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Re: CA:Brown Signs Bill Removing Penalty for Using Guns in C

Post by ip_law-hokie »

CFB Apologist wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
ip_law-hokie wrote: True or false:

Longer prison sentences for violent crime = less violent crime.
True.
Why don't you want to reduce violent crime?
Did you ever get in fist fights as a kid?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
No. I've never initiated violence against another, let alone committed a violent crime.

I'm curious what you're point was, though. Are you arguing we're all violent and no different than rapists and murderers?
No. I’m arguing that living in some sort of police state where people are locked up for crazy amounts of time for relatively minor offenses reduces violent crime, but doing so imparts other costs to society.

You guys rail against “zero tolerance” type numbskullery all the time, for good reason. Mandatory sentencing requirements are the same thing.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Can we as people with brains move on from this bullshit talking point/PC crap/ Liberal agenda- whatever you want to call it- where gun felons are some kind of hidden gem or value to society? That illegal immigrants that don't speak the language and are often part of larger crimes are some hidden value and gem to society? Can we please stop with the bullshit? It's dishonest garbage. A gun felon, multiple record felon is of NO value to society- they lost that privilege by committing violent crimes. There are no aspiring cancer researchers or heart surgeons doing time at Folsom - NONE. There are no former MS 13 bangers that are the next Mars rover designers- NONE. Let's leave the violent fringes on society where they belong for gods sake.[/quote]

Your arguments, emotional and powerful as they may be, are not in response to any argument made in this thread.


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With their Cap’n and Chief Intelligence Officer having deserted them, River, Ham and Joe valiantly continue their whataboutismistic last stand of the DJT apology tour.
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