love how the msm is talking about the tax reform, NONE of

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USN_Hokie
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Re: love how the msm is talking about the tax reform, NONE o

Post by USN_Hokie »

Hokie CPA wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
ElbertoHokie wrote:I'm most upset about the debt increase.
Tax cuts don't increase the deficit / debt. Spending does.
Surplus (deficit) = Revenues - expenditures, when revenues ≠ expenditures.

It's a pretty simple equation in which spending and taxes both play a role. If you cut revenues and don't cut spending by at least the same amount, then you most certainly do increase the deficit.
Everyone gets that.

Tax cuts create deficits like riding in the rascal instead of walking at the piggly wiggly makes the 500lb lady fat. In the same vein, lack of exercise doesn't make the concentration camp prisoners fat.

The fat person is fat because he/she eats too much, and the deficit is so high because we spend too much. It's not a tax revenue problem.
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Re: love how the msm is talking about the tax reform, NONE o

Post by HokieFanDC »

USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
ElbertoHokie wrote:I'm most upset about the debt increase.
Tax cuts don't increase the deficit / debt. Spending does.
Wow. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Yes? Think a little harder.
No thanks. It's not a difficult concept.
Projection is a $1.5T increase in debt. $1T from corporate, $0.3T from individual, $0.2T from estate.
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Re: love how the msm is talking about the tax reform, NONE o

Post by Hokie5150 »

ip_law-hokie wrote:
Hokie5150 wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:them say that for most everybody their taxes will go down but only highlight that after a decade they will go back up IF THE RATES are allowed to expire.

And fail to explain that the corp. rate is going down which is great as the companies will shift revenue back to the USA and never mind that corp. do not pay one cent in taxes....everyone that buys what they do pay the tax
Nor do say why the rates will expire...namely because it is part of CR which is why it can pass with a simply majority. The cuts could have been made permanent if enough Democrats had signed on to pass with a super majority.
Aren’t the rate “expirations” just an accounting gimmick to keep the final bill under 1.5T?


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Yes and no. The tax bill could only pass under reconciliation (requiring a simply majority)...they didn't have the votes to close debate (60 required). The intent (at least if we are to believe them) is to make them permanent down the road if/when then can get enough Dems on board. As for the "final bill", taxes are revenue not expenditures. There is no "bill" for a tax cut and no "credit" for a tax increase. Bills come from the expenditure side of the ledger. The problem in government, though, is that no one keeps revenue in mind when they decide to spend.
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Re: love how the msm is talking about the tax reform, NONE o

Post by USN_Hokie »

HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
Tax cuts don't increase the deficit / debt. Spending does.
Wow. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Yes? Think a little harder.
No thanks.
Ok. Stay ignorant.
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Re: love how the msm is talking about the tax reform, NONE o

Post by HokieFanDC »

USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
Tax cuts don't increase the deficit / debt. Spending does.
Wow. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Yes? Think a little harder.
No thanks.
Ok. Stay ignorant.
I explained it. You don't have to think harder to understand it. It's simple.
You don't have an answer to it, which is why you can't explain how reducing tax revenues isn't going to add to the debt.
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Re: love how the msm is talking about the tax reform, NONE o

Post by USN_Hokie »

HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
Tax cuts don't increase the deficit / debt. Spending does.
Wow. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Yes? Think a little harder.
No thanks.
Ok. Stay ignorant.
I explained it. You don't have to think harder to understand it. It's simple.
You don't have an answer to it, which is why you can't explain how reducing tax revenues isn't going to add to the debt.
I already did explain it to the poster who didn't make a jackass of himself responding. Have a nice day.
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Re: love how the msm is talking about the tax reform, NONE o

Post by HokieFanDC »

USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
Wow. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Yes? Think a little harder.
No thanks.
Ok. Stay ignorant.
I explained it. You don't have to think harder to understand it. It's simple.
You don't have an answer to it, which is why you can't explain how reducing tax revenues isn't going to add to the debt.
I already did explain it to the poster who didn't make a jackass of himself responding. Have a nice day.
Your answer wasn't an argument that tax cuts don't increase deficits. Your answer was that you think that $1.5T in revenue decrease is small compared to spending. Bottom line, cutting taxes does increase deficits, to the tune of $1.5T. And on a debt of $19-20M, $1.5T is still material.
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Re: love how the msm is talking about the tax reform, NONE o

Post by RiverguyVT »

HokieFanDC wrote:
RiverguyVT wrote:
ElbertoHokie wrote:I'm most upset about the debt increase. Republicans can never call themselves the part of fiscal conservatism again. And there's no way the GDP is going to grow at the rates they're predicting. It's out of the realm of reasonable possibility. The economy is cooking better than it has since the dot com bubble, but GDP growth isn't close to approaching the GOP's predicted growth numbers.

I'm more than happy to get a tax break, but as a 33 years old, this is just another example of kicking the can regarding balancing budgets. What happens when a debt service payments reach critical mass?
We don't know yet if this increases debt. To be seen yet
That is what people are hanging their hats on, but the things that have to happen to keep it from increasing the debt are pretty unlikely. I think it would be a victory to have the debt increase only half of the CBO projections, which is still unlikely.
Things that have to happen:
1- a spending decrease. ---I agry. Very unlikely
Or
2- increase in economic activity which creates govt revenue. --- I disagry, and see this as a VERY likely outcome.
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Re: love how the msm is talking about the tax reform, NONE o

Post by ip_law-hokie »

USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote: Wow. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Yes? Think a little harder.
No thanks.
Ok. Stay ignorant.
I explained it. You don't have to think harder to understand it. It's simple.
You don't have an answer to it, which is why you can't explain how reducing tax revenues isn't going to add to the debt.
I already did explain it to the poster who didn't make a jackass of himself responding. Have a nice day.
Will do asshole.

Merry Christmas.


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Re: love how the msm is talking about the tax reform, NONE o

Post by HokieFanDC »

RiverguyVT wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
RiverguyVT wrote:
ElbertoHokie wrote:I'm most upset about the debt increase. Republicans can never call themselves the part of fiscal conservatism again. And there's no way the GDP is going to grow at the rates they're predicting. It's out of the realm of reasonable possibility. The economy is cooking better than it has since the dot com bubble, but GDP growth isn't close to approaching the GOP's predicted growth numbers.

I'm more than happy to get a tax break, but as a 33 years old, this is just another example of kicking the can regarding balancing budgets. What happens when a debt service payments reach critical mass?
We don't know yet if this increases debt. To be seen yet
That is what people are hanging their hats on, but the things that have to happen to keep it from increasing the debt are pretty unlikely. I think it would be a victory to have the debt increase only half of the CBO projections, which is still unlikely.
Things that have to happen:
1- a spending decrease. ---I agry. Very unlikely
Or
2- increase in economic activity which creates govt revenue. --- I disagry, and see this as a VERY likely outcome.
On #2, there are already expected increases in economic activity baked into the $1.5T number. To get to rev neutral, the T Dept. is assuming a bunch of policy and regulatory changes will be implemented, and that the impact of those changes will increase GDP. Both of those assumptions are very speculative.
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Re: love how the msm is talking about the tax reform, NONE o

Post by RiverguyVT »

On #2, there are already expected increases in economic activity baked into the $1.5T number. To get to rev neutral, the T Dept. is assuming a bunch of policy and regulatory changes will be implemented, and that the impact of those changes will increase GDP. Both of those assumptions are very speculative.
Ah, but there's the rub- how much growth did the CBO project? Using what metrics?
I'm betting they're wrong.

One of my clints called me yesterday on a $250,000 decision he's making based on this tax change. That's just one little guy in RVA.
:o
So I put (the dead dog) on her doorstep!
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Re: love how the msm is talking about the tax reform, NONE o

Post by 133743Hokie »

RiverguyVT wrote:
On #2, there are already expected increases in economic activity baked into the $1.5T number. To get to rev neutral, the T Dept. is assuming a bunch of policy and regulatory changes will be implemented, and that the impact of those changes will increase GDP. Both of those assumptions are very speculative.
Ah, but there's the rub- how much growth did the CBO project? Using what metrics?
I'm betting they're wrong.

One of my clints called me yesterday on a $250,000 decision he's making based on this tax change. That's just one little guy in RVA.
:o
If I recall correctly the CBO was basing their projection on 2.5% or 2.8% annual growth
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Re: love how the msm is talking about the tax reform, NONE o

Post by RiverguyVT »

133743Hokie wrote:
RiverguyVT wrote:
On #2, there are already expected increases in economic activity baked into the $1.5T number. To get to rev neutral, the T Dept. is assuming a bunch of policy and regulatory changes will be implemented, and that the impact of those changes will increase GDP. Both of those assumptions are very speculative.
Ah, but there's the rub- how much growth did the CBO project? Using what metrics?
I'm betting they're wrong.

One of my clints called me yesterday on a $250,000 decision he's making based on this tax change. That's just one little guy in RVA.
:o
If I recall correctly the CBO was basing their projection on 2.5% or 2.8% annual growth
So, no more growth than what we'd had last 8 years. Hmmnn. I think that will prove wrong. We shall see.. ;)
So I put (the dead dog) on her doorstep!
Salute the Marines
Soon we'll have planes that fly 22000 mph
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Re: love how the msm is talking about the tax reform, NONE o

Post by USN_Hokie »

HokieFanDC wrote: Your answer wasn't an argument that tax cuts don't increase deficits. Your answer was that you think that $1.5T in revenue decrease is small compared to spending. Bottom line, cutting taxes does increase deficits, to the tune of $1.5T. And on a debt of $19-20M, $1.5T is still material.
Double negatives aside, that's not my argument.

Tax cuts only increase the deficit when there's a greater amount of deficit spending. If there was a $2T surplus, $1.5T in tax revenue reduction would not add debt.

We have a spending problem, not a tax revenue problem. We're not going to fix our spending problem with more taxes (in fact, you just make it worse). Taxes are an independent variable.

IF Republicans don't cut spending, people (including myself) will be 100% justified in criticizing them for it.
However, there is no moral obligation for today's taxpayers to bail out the ridiculous entitlements that boomers and others created. Quite the opposite, it's immoral to dump all their debts on future generations (hence, cut spending).

I made my comment because I hate the arguments which people (almost always liberals) make where they characterize taxpayers as some sort of crop which needs harvested to feed the state. That's bullshit.
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Re: love how the msm is talking about the tax reform, NONE o

Post by HokieHam »

Image
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Re: love how the msm is talking about the tax reform, NONE o

Post by cwtcr hokie »

ip_law-hokie wrote:
Hokie5150 wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:them say that for most everybody their taxes will go down but only highlight that after a decade they will go back up IF THE RATES are allowed to expire.

And fail to explain that the corp. rate is going down which is great as the companies will shift revenue back to the USA and never mind that corp. do not pay one cent in taxes....everyone that buys what they do pay the tax
Nor do say why the rates will expire...namely because it is part of CR which is why it can pass with a simply majority. The cuts could have been made permanent if enough Democrats had signed on to pass with a super majority.
Aren’t the rate “expirations” just an accounting gimmick to keep the final bill under 1.5T?


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10 year out projections are all accounting gimmicks, nobody has a clue what will occur in year 10
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Re: love how the msm is talking about the tax reform, NONE o

Post by RiverguyVT »

ATT announcing $200,000,000 in bonuses, citing the tax changes?
Is that correct?
So I put (the dead dog) on her doorstep!
Salute the Marines
Soon we'll have planes that fly 22000 mph
"#PedoPete" = Hunter's name for his dad.
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Re: love how the msm is talking about the tax reform, NONE o

Post by HokieFanDC »

RiverguyVT wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:
RiverguyVT wrote:
On #2, there are already expected increases in economic activity baked into the $1.5T number. To get to rev neutral, the T Dept. is assuming a bunch of policy and regulatory changes will be implemented, and that the impact of those changes will increase GDP. Both of those assumptions are very speculative.
Ah, but there's the rub- how much growth did the CBO project? Using what metrics?
I'm betting they're wrong.

One of my clints called me yesterday on a $250,000 decision he's making based on this tax change. That's just one little guy in RVA.
:o
If I recall correctly the CBO was basing their projection on 2.5% or 2.8% annual growth
So, no more growth than what we'd had last 8 years. Hmmnn. I think that will prove wrong. We shall see.. ;)
Let's hope so.
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Re: love how the msm is talking about the tax reform, NONE o

Post by HokieHam »

RiverguyVT wrote:ATT announcing $200,000,000 in bonuses, citing the tax changes?
Is that correct?
See my link above.
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Re: love how the msm is talking about the tax reform, NONE o

Post by HokieHam »

Oh look! More #winning!

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/20/fifth-t ... ssage.html

Where are all the deaths? Weren’t we told this “trickle down” effect wouldn’t happen?
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Re: love how the msm is talking about the tax reform, NONE o

Post by HokieHam »

And an add to the AT&T story.......

“Later in the afternoon, cable and media company Comcast NBCUniversal (CNBC's parent company) made a similar move: it announced it would give special $1,000 bonuses "ased on the passage of tax reform and the FCC's action on broadband." Those bonuses would apply to more than 100,000 employees that are eligible and not in executive roles.

The company also made a big spending commitment to bolster its broadband plants, television and film production, and theme parks, pledging an outlay of at least $50 billion over the next five years.“
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Re: love how the msm is talking about the tax reform, NONE o

Post by HokieHam »

:lol:
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Re: love how the msm is talking about the tax reform, NONE o

Post by HokieHam »

I predict a new hashtag for the Democrats from here to 2020

#somuchlosing

https://www.geekwire.com/2017/boeing-ce ... -tax-bill/
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Re: love how the msm is talking about the tax reform, NONE o

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:lol:
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