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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:00 am 
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them say that for most everybody their taxes will go down but only highlight that after a decade they will go back up IF THE RATES are allowed to expire.

And fail to explain that the corp. rate is going down which is great as the companies will shift revenue back to the USA and never mind that corp. do not pay one cent in taxes....everyone that buys what they do pay the tax


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:52 am 
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Left leaning Tax Policy Center states the following...

80% of people will see their taxes go down
15% will see essentially no change
5% will see an increase
average savings is $1,600
top 5% see the biggest tax savings


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:44 am 
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Location: Kicking over crayons in a safe space for libruls....
I just love seeing what we’ve been saying for years. The so called msm is nothing but a branch of the dumb party. THe way hey talked this down vs. their gushing over Obeezycare.......LOL.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:25 am 
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cwtcr hokie wrote:
them say that for most everybody their taxes will go down but only highlight that after a decade they will go back up IF THE RATES are allowed to expire.

And fail to explain that the corp. rate is going down which is great as the companies will shift revenue back to the USA and never mind that corp. do not pay one cent in taxes....everyone that buys what they do pay the tax

Nor do say why the rates will expire...namely because it is part of CR which is why it can pass with a simply majority. The cuts could have been made permanent if enough Democrats had signed on to pass with a super majority.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:28 am 
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I'm most upset about the debt increase. Republicans can never call themselves the part of fiscal conservatism again. And there's no way the GDP is going to grow at the rates they're predicting. It's out of the realm of reasonable possibility. The economy is cooking better than it has since the dot com bubble, but GDP growth isn't close to approaching the GOP's predicted growth numbers.

I'm more than happy to get a tax break, but as a 33 years old, this is just another example of kicking the can regarding balancing budgets. What happens when a debt service payments reach critical mass?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:32 am 
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ElbertoHokie wrote:
I'm most upset about the debt increase. Republicans can never call themselves the part of fiscal conservatism again.



You mean like Democrats are pretending to do now, when most of them voted for Obamacare, and did nothing while Obama doubled our national debt to over $20T?

This idea that this tax cut adds to the debt is only true if you believe the economy will not grow. The intent of the tax cut is to GROW the economy (way more than the pathetic 2% that Obama gave us), so if it works as intended, it will shrink the debt. But keep buying and repeating Democrat talking points if it makes you feel better.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:37 am 
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ElbertoHokie wrote:
I'm most upset about the debt increase. Republicans can never call themselves the part of fiscal conservatism again. And there's no way the GDP is going to grow at the rates they're predicting. It's out of the realm of reasonable possibility. The economy is cooking better than it has since the dot com bubble, but GDP growth isn't close to approaching the GOP's predicted growth numbers.

I'm more than happy to get a tax break, but as a 33 years old, this is just another example of kicking the can regarding balancing budgets. What happens when a debt service payments reach critical mass?


Yep. The diehard partisans have ignored the debt issue for decades. It's bad when the other party does it, good when their guy does it. But, when Ds increase debt, it's usually from increased spending. Rs do it by tax cuts. I'll take tax cuts over spending every time. We'll have to see how this admin handles spending. My guess is it will be less than impressive (duhhhh). I also think the corp tax cut was poorly done. There should have been hooks in the reform to incentivize corps to actually reinvest their savings to create jobs. And the cuts should have been smaller, with the message being that if corps actually work toward creating jobs, then the rate will drop again.

Other than that, it's same old stuff. More debt, and the supporters of the party in charge just don't care.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:37 am 
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ElbertoHokie wrote:
I'm most upset about the debt increase.


Tax cuts don't increase the deficit / debt. Spending does.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:39 am 
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ElbertoHokie wrote:
I'm most upset about the debt increase. Republicans can never call themselves the part of fiscal conservatism again. And there's no way the GDP is going to grow at the rates they're predicting. It's out of the realm of reasonable possibility. The economy is cooking better than it has since the dot com bubble, but GDP growth isn't close to approaching the GOP's predicted growth numbers.

I'm more than happy to get a tax break, but as a 33 years old, this is just another example of kicking the can regarding balancing budgets. What happens when a debt service payments reach critical mass?

The only way to reduce the deficit is thru entitlement reform. That's where the majority of the spending falls. And neither party is willing to do what is necessary, and we will certainly NEVER see a bipartisan effort on entitlement reform.

The horse and cart are out of the barn. Many decades of democratic control led us to the entitlement state that currently exists. The republicans (and many of their constituents) have become accustomed to it and don't want to give anything up (much like what happened with Obamacare). It is just impractical to take wide sweeping benefits away from the public. There will always be a large group that is negatively affected. It's a losing proposition for politicians and will therefore never be addressed.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:40 am 
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ElbertoHokie wrote:
I'm most upset about the debt increase. Republicans can never call themselves the part of fiscal conservatism again. And there's no way the GDP is going to grow at the rates they're predicting. It's out of the realm of reasonable possibility. The economy is cooking better than it has since the dot com bubble, but GDP growth isn't close to approaching the GOP's predicted growth numbers.

I'm more than happy to get a tax break, but as a 33 years old, this is just another example of kicking the can regarding balancing budgets. What happens when a debt service payments reach critical mass?

We don't know yet if this increases debt. To be seen yet


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:44 am 
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USN_Hokie wrote:
ElbertoHokie wrote:
I'm most upset about the debt increase.


Tax cuts don't increase the deficit / debt. Spending does.


Wow. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:45 am 
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133743Hokie wrote:
ElbertoHokie wrote:
I'm most upset about the debt increase. Republicans can never call themselves the part of fiscal conservatism again. And there's no way the GDP is going to grow at the rates they're predicting. It's out of the realm of reasonable possibility. The economy is cooking better than it has since the dot com bubble, but GDP growth isn't close to approaching the GOP's predicted growth numbers.

I'm more than happy to get a tax break, but as a 33 years old, this is just another example of kicking the can regarding balancing budgets. What happens when a debt service payments reach critical mass?

The only way to reduce the deficit is thru entitlement reform. That's where the majority of the spending falls. And neither party is willing to do what is necessary, and we will certainly NEVER see a bipartisan effort on entitlement reform.

The horse and cart are out of the barn. Many decades of democratic control led us to the entitlement state that currently exists. The republicans (and many of their constituents) have become accustomed to it and don't want to give anything up (much like what happened with Obamacare). It is just impractical to take wide sweeping benefits away from the public. There will always be a large group that is negatively affected. It's a losing proposition for politicians and will therefore never be addressed.



This.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:46 am 
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ElbertoHokie wrote:
I'm most upset about the debt increase. Republicans can never call themselves the part of fiscal conservatism again. And there's no way the GDP is going to grow at the rates they're predicting. It's out of the realm of reasonable possibility. The economy is cooking better than it has since the dot com bubble, but GDP growth isn't close to approaching the GOP's predicted growth numbers.

I'm more than happy to get a tax break, but as a 33 years old, this is just another example of kicking the can regarding balancing budgets. What happens when a debt service payments reach critical mass?


If you believe the projections, of course all the projections made by gov. offices have been wildly wrong in real life. Sorry, but a rising economy brings more tax dollars into the fed and state even if some rates are cut. The corp tax rate was a no brainer as the companies that make a ton of money just shift the revenue to lower tax countries, bringing our rate to a more competitive rate gets rid of all the gymnastics and will actually bring more dollars into the coffers. But as we can see Trump is trying to cut spending, that will get rid of any defecit if anyone will move the cuts thru congress. The problem is every freebie is a right, its in the constitution after all, right?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:47 am 
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HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
ElbertoHokie wrote:
I'm most upset about the debt increase.


Tax cuts don't increase the deficit / debt. Spending does.


Wow. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


good thing the current reform is revenue neutral


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:47 am 
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RiverguyVT wrote:
ElbertoHokie wrote:
I'm most upset about the debt increase. Republicans can never call themselves the part of fiscal conservatism again. And there's no way the GDP is going to grow at the rates they're predicting. It's out of the realm of reasonable possibility. The economy is cooking better than it has since the dot com bubble, but GDP growth isn't close to approaching the GOP's predicted growth numbers.

I'm more than happy to get a tax break, but as a 33 years old, this is just another example of kicking the can regarding balancing budgets. What happens when a debt service payments reach critical mass?

We don't know yet if this increases debt. To be seen yet


That is what people are hanging their hats on, but the things that have to happen to keep it from increasing the debt are pretty unlikely. I think it would be a victory to have the debt increase only half of the CBO projections, which is still unlikely.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:48 am 
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133743Hokie wrote:
ElbertoHokie wrote:
I'm most upset about the debt increase. Republicans can never call themselves the part of fiscal conservatism again. And there's no way the GDP is going to grow at the rates they're predicting. It's out of the realm of reasonable possibility. The economy is cooking better than it has since the dot com bubble, but GDP growth isn't close to approaching the GOP's predicted growth numbers.

I'm more than happy to get a tax break, but as a 33 years old, this is just another example of kicking the can regarding balancing budgets. What happens when a debt service payments reach critical mass?

The only way to reduce the deficit is thru entitlement reform. That's where the majority of the spending falls. And neither party is willing to do what is necessary, and we will certainly NEVER see a bipartisan effort on entitlement reform.

The horse and cart are out of the barn. Many decades of democratic control led us to the entitlement state that currently exists. The republicans (and many of their constituents) have become accustomed to it and don't want to give anything up (much like what happened with Obamacare). It is just impractical to take wide sweeping benefits away from the public. There will always be a large group that is negatively affected. It's a losing proposition for politicians and will therefore never be addressed.

Yup. They are only concerned with being re-elected.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:49 am 
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USN_Hokie wrote:
ElbertoHokie wrote:
I'm most upset about the debt increase.


Tax cuts don't increase the deficit / debt. Spending does.


Surplus (deficit) = Revenues - expenditures, when revenues ≠ expenditures.

It's a pretty simple equation in which spending and taxes both play a role. If you cut revenues and don't cut spending by at least the same amount, then you most certainly do increase the deficit.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:54 am 
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ElbertoHokie wrote:
I'm most upset about the debt increase. Republicans can never call themselves the part of fiscal conservatism again. And there's no way the GDP is going to grow at the rates they're predicting. It's out of the realm of reasonable possibility. The economy is cooking better than it has since the dot com bubble, but GDP growth isn't close to approaching the GOP's predicted growth numbers.

I'm more than happy to get a tax break, but as a 33 years old, this is just another example of kicking the can regarding balancing budgets. What happens when a debt service payments reach critical mass?
I'm glad you opinion isn't worth much. The economy and debt will be fine.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:55 am 
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UpstateSCHokie wrote:
ElbertoHokie wrote:
I'm most upset about the debt increase. Republicans can never call themselves the part of fiscal conservatism again.



You mean like Democrats are pretending to do now, when most of them voted for Obamacare, and did nothing while Obama doubled our national debt to over $20T?

This idea that this tax cut adds to the debt is only true if you believe the economy will not grow. The intent of the tax cut is to GROW the economy (way more than the pathetic 2% that Obama gave us), so if it works as intended, it will shrink the debt. But keep buying and repeating Democrat talking points if it makes you feel better.
Elberto didn't care about Obama doubling the debt. He's simply engaged in partisan whinning.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:56 am 
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cwtcr hokie wrote:
HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
ElbertoHokie wrote:
I'm most upset about the debt increase.


Tax cuts don't increase the deficit / debt. Spending does.


Wow. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


good thing the current reform is revenue neutral


Nope. The T Dept. has said it will be, but can't provide an actual path to get there. Their revenue neutral forecast is based on fantasy.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:15 pm 
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Saw one of the socialist senators on tv y'day. He was whining that the vast majority of tax breaks go to the wealthy. Of course, he did not define wealthy.

And um, about 50% of the population doesn't pay any federal taxes. And of the remaining half, if everyone gets a 10% tax break, someone who pays $50,000 in taxes is going to get vastly more of a tax break than someone who pays $8,000 in taxes.

The idiot interviewer on fox never asked the socialist to define his terms or ask how much of a tax break someone who pays zero taxes should get.




cwtcr hokie wrote:
them say that for most everybody their taxes will go down but only highlight that after a decade they will go back up IF THE RATES are allowed to expire.

And fail to explain that the corp. rate is going down which is great as the companies will shift revenue back to the USA and never mind that corp. do not pay one cent in taxes....everyone that buys what they do pay the tax

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:17 pm 
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awesome guy wrote:
UpstateSCHokie wrote:
ElbertoHokie wrote:
I'm most upset about the debt increase. Republicans can never call themselves the part of fiscal conservatism again.



You mean like Democrats are pretending to do now, when most of them voted for Obamacare, and did nothing while Obama doubled our national debt to over $20T?

This idea that this tax cut adds to the debt is only true if you believe the economy will not grow. The intent of the tax cut is to GROW the economy (way more than the pathetic 2% that Obama gave us), so if it works as intended, it will shrink the debt. But keep buying and repeating Democrat talking points if it makes you feel better.
Elberto didn't care about Obama doubling the debt. He's simply engaged in partisan whinning.


Wasn't for Obamacare then at all. I am for an individual mandate. The large proportion of our spending is defense, medicare, and social security related and it's not even close. Trump can cut spending on all the little things he wants, but unless large portions of those 3 programs are cut, then we're really just peeing up a rope. I'd love for entitlement reform to happen. But it won't. It doesn't matter who's in office.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:35 pm 
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Hokie5150 wrote:
cwtcr hokie wrote:
them say that for most everybody their taxes will go down but only highlight that after a decade they will go back up IF THE RATES are allowed to expire.

And fail to explain that the corp. rate is going down which is great as the companies will shift revenue back to the USA and never mind that corp. do not pay one cent in taxes....everyone that buys what they do pay the tax

Nor do say why the rates will expire...namely because it is part of CR which is why it can pass with a simply majority. The cuts could have been made permanent if enough Democrats had signed on to pass with a super majority.


Aren’t the rate “expirations” just an accounting gimmick to keep the final bill under 1.5T?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:35 pm 
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ElbertoHokie wrote:
awesome guy wrote:
UpstateSCHokie wrote:
ElbertoHokie wrote:
I'm most upset about the debt increase. Republicans can never call themselves the part of fiscal conservatism again.



You mean like Democrats are pretending to do now, when most of them voted for Obamacare, and did nothing while Obama doubled our national debt to over $20T?

This idea that this tax cut adds to the debt is only true if you believe the economy will not grow. The intent of the tax cut is to GROW the economy (way more than the pathetic 2% that Obama gave us), so if it works as intended, it will shrink the debt. But keep buying and repeating Democrat talking points if it makes you feel better.
Elberto didn't care about Obama doubling the debt. He's simply engaged in partisan whinning.


Wasn't for Obamacare then at all. I am for an individual mandate. The large proportion of our spending is defense, medicare, and social security related and it's not even close. Trump can cut spending on all the little things he wants, but unless large portions of those 3 programs are cut, then we're really just peeing up a rope. I'd love for entitlement reform to happen. But it won't. It doesn't matter who's in office.
So you're just against healthcare.gov? Do you know what Obamacare is?

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:36 pm 
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HokieFanDC wrote:
USN_Hokie wrote:
ElbertoHokie wrote:
I'm most upset about the debt increase.


Tax cuts don't increase the deficit / debt. Spending does.


Wow. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Yes? Think a little harder.

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