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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:27 pm 
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TheH2 wrote:
RiverguyVT wrote:
TheH2 wrote:
RiverguyVT wrote:
TheH2 wrote:
RiverguyVT wrote:
Uh-huh


How long have they had nukes?


http://www.heritage.org/middle-east/com ... about-iran


So they don't have nukes.


Who would know? Dems gave them the means...

So they didn't have the means before the deal, but now they do?


Well, part of the agreement relied on Iran self-reporting. So, since they haven't self-reported they have a nuke, the rest of the world doesn't know where they stand on this issue.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:46 pm 
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Mcl3 Hokie wrote:
TheH2 wrote:
RiverguyVT wrote:
TheH2 wrote:
RiverguyVT wrote:
TheH2 wrote:

How long have they had nukes?


http://www.heritage.org/middle-east/com ... about-iran


So they don't have nukes.


Who would know? Dems gave them the means...

So they didn't have the means before the deal, but now they do?


Well, part of the agreement relied on Iran self-reporting. So, since they haven't self-reported they have a nuke, the rest of the world doesn't know where they stand on this issue.

We have access to the nuclear program, we can request access to anything, have the right to search within 14 days (I think 14?). Enriched uranium was shipped out of the country. This agreement was signed by a lot of countries not just the U.S.

The people that the Persians are protesting against are the same ways that did not want the nuclear deal.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:46 pm 
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RiverguyVT wrote:
TheH2 wrote:
RiverguyVT wrote:
TheH2 wrote:
RiverguyVT wrote:
TheH2 wrote:

How long have they had nukes?


http://www.heritage.org/middle-east/com ... about-iran


So they don't have nukes.


Who would know? Dems gave them the means...

So they didn't have the means before the deal, but now they do?

What coy point do you think you're trying to make?

Solely that you don't have one.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:55 pm 
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TheH2 wrote:
Mcl3 Hokie wrote:
TheH2 wrote:
RiverguyVT wrote:
TheH2 wrote:
RiverguyVT wrote:


So they don't have nukes.


Who would know? Dems gave them the means...

So they didn't have the means before the deal, but now they do?


Well, part of the agreement relied on Iran self-reporting. So, since they haven't self-reported they have a nuke, the rest of the world doesn't know where they stand on this issue.

We have access to the nuclear program, we can request access to anything, have the right to search within 14 days (I think 14?). Enriched uranium was shipped out of the country. This agreement was signed by a lot of countries not just the U.S.

The people that the Persians are protesting against are the same ways that did not want the nuclear deal.


1. Hans Brix called, he wants his plan back.
2. Your semantical purse fight with RiverguyVT aside, the deal did give them the means to get nukes. They've been spending the cash Obama gave them on arms. One of the reasons DPRK developed nukes was for sales. Put two and two together.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:58 pm 
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TheH2 wrote:
Mcl3 Hokie wrote:
TheH2 wrote:
RiverguyVT wrote:
TheH2 wrote:

So they don't have nukes.


Who would know? Dems gave them the means...

So they didn't have the means before the deal, but now they do?


Well, part of the agreement relied on Iran self-reporting. So, since they haven't self-reported they have a nuke, the rest of the world doesn't know where they stand on this issue.

We have access to the nuclear program, we can request access to anything, have the right to search within 14 days (I think 14?). Enriched uranium was shipped out of the country. This agreement was signed by a lot of countries not just the U.S.

The people that the Persians are protesting against are the same ways that did not want the nuclear deal.

No, we cannot inspect anything we want to. There are limitations, including some military bases where inspectors are not allowed and thus where"self reporting" will have to do. Three guesses where Irans weapon programs are located.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:43 pm 
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Quote:
We have access to the nuclear program, we can request access to anything, have the right to search within 14 days (I think 14?). Enriched uranium was shipped out of the country. This agreement was signed by a lot of countries not just the U.S.


No, we do not have access to anything they don't want us to have access to. They denied access to sites before the poorly named "deal", so what planet are you on that you think now that restrictions were loosened, somehow Iran will allow access? 24 days is what I think you are reaching for, but there is ZERO enforcement mechanism.

There is no way to know what enriched uranium they do or do not have. Seeing that they were accumulating 20% before the deal, and now restrictions have been lifted, what makes you think they are now limiting themselves to 5%? Their goodwill? Their respect for the Christian west? Their track record? What, exactly?

Your point is that I have none? Huh, my point is that you may be the most gullible person on this board. "Yay, team!! Obama told me it was a good deal, so that's good enough for me! "

The same exact (more or less) "deal" terms made w NKorea yrs ago by Clinton today have folks in the pacific ducking whatever Kim lobs around. Bill said that was a great deal too.


Last edited by RiverguyVT on Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:44 pm 
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133743Hokie wrote:
TheH2 wrote:
Mcl3 Hokie wrote:
TheH2 wrote:
RiverguyVT wrote:
TheH2 wrote:

So they don't have nukes.


Who would know? Dems gave them the means...

So they didn't have the means before the deal, but now they do?


Well, part of the agreement relied on Iran self-reporting. So, since they haven't self-reported they have a nuke, the rest of the world doesn't know where they stand on this issue.

We have access to the nuclear program, we can request access to anything, have the right to search within 14 days (I think 14?). Enriched uranium was shipped out of the country. This agreement was signed by a lot of countries not just the U.S.

The people that the Persians are protesting against are the same ways that did not want the nuclear deal.

No, we cannot inspect anything we want to. There are limitations, including some military bases where inspectors are not allowed and thus where"self reporting" will have to do. Three guesses where Irans weapon programs are located.

The inspectors can request access to any site if there is reason to do so. Iran has 24 days to conform. Apparently message board posters or Haley can not request the Iranian government give the inspectors access.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:48 pm 
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RiverguyVT wrote:
Quote:
We have access to the nuclear program, we can request access to anything, have the right to search within 14 days (I think 14?). Enriched uranium was shipped out of the country. This agreement was signed by a lot of countries not just the U.S.


No, we do not have access to anything they don't want us to have access to. They denied access to sites before the poorly named "deal", so what planet are you on that you think now that restrictions were loosened, somehow Iran will allow access? 24 days is what I think you are reaching for, but there is ZERO enforcement mechanism.

There is no way to know what enriched uranium they do or do not have. Seeing that they were accumulating 20% before the deal, and now restrictions have been lifted, what makes you think they are now limiting themselves to 5%? Their goodwill? Their respect for the Christian west? Their track record? What, exactly?

Your point is that I have none? Huh, my point is that you may be the most gullible person on this board. "Yay, team!! Obama told me it was a good deal, so that's good enough for me! "

The same exact (more or less) "deal" terms made w NKorea yrs ago by Clinton today have folks in the pacific ducking whatever Kim libs around. Bill said that was a great deal too.
He's a robot, no thinking ability, just regurgitates what someone else told him to think. It probably is the best path for him.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:49 pm 
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TheH2 wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:
TheH2 wrote:
Mcl3 Hokie wrote:
TheH2 wrote:
RiverguyVT wrote:
[quote="TheH2"]

So they don't have nukes.


Who would know? Dems gave them the means...

So they didn't have the means before the deal, but now they do?


Well, part of the agreement relied on Iran self-reporting. So, since they haven't self-reported they have a nuke, the rest of the world doesn't know where they stand on this issue.

We have access to the nuclear program, we can request access to anything, have the right to search within 14 days (I think 14?). Enriched uranium was shipped out of the country. This agreement was signed by a lot of countries not just the U.S.

The people that the Persians are protesting against are the same ways that did not want the nuclear deal.

No, we cannot inspect anything we want to. There are limitations, including some military bases where inspectors are not allowed and thus where"self reporting" will have to do. Three guesses where Irans weapon programs are located.

The inspectors can request access to any site if there is reason to do so. Iran has 24 days to conform. Apparently message board posters or Haley can not request the Iranian government give the inspectors access.[/quote]Nope, the scope is limited

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:49 pm 
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Quote:
The inspectors can request access to any site if there is reason to do so. Iran has 24 days to conform. Apparently message board posters or Haley can not request the Iranian government give the inspectors access

The inspectors who request access!? LOL! The same ones Iran denied access to every time they've asked for access in the past? Good grief, H2. You can't be this brainwashed.

So. Say they ask and are denied. Then what?
Oh snap. Nothing! That's right! No penalties. Just rely on the mullahs goodwill. That's brilliant.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:54 pm 
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Quote:
He's a robot, no thinking ability, just regurgitates what someone else told him to think. It probably is the best path for him.

I disagry. On financial matters, he is very well read and thought out, and has a lot to add to this board's discussions in that arena.

On this issue? Good grief. It is like listening to Hillary! give a non-answer answer.

I guess the radicals in Iran, per H2, have the US's best interests at heart after all... despite past precedences.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:56 pm 
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RiverguyVT wrote:
Quote:
We have access to the nuclear program, we can request access to anything, have the right to search within 14 days (I think 14?). Enriched uranium was shipped out of the country. This agreement was signed by a lot of countries not just the U.S.


No, we do not have access to anything they don't want us to have access to. They denied access to sites before the poorly named "deal", so what planet are you on that you think now that restrictions were loosened, somehow Iran will allow access? 24 days is what I think you are reaching for, but there is ZERO enforcement mechanism.

There is no way to know what enriched uranium they do or do not have. Seeing that they were accumulating 20% before the deal, and now restrictions have been lifted, what makes you think they are now limiting themselves to 5%? Their goodwill? Their respect for the Christian west? Their track record? What, exactly?

Your point is that I have none? Huh, my point is that you may be the most gullible person on this board. "Yay, team!! Obama told me it was a good deal, so that's good enough for me! "

The same exact (more or less) "deal" terms made w NKorea yrs ago by Clinton today have folks in the pacific ducking whatever Kim libs around. Bill said that was a great deal too.


Obama didn't sign the deal, several countries did. All of which thought this was a reasonable conclusion to several years of sanctions. Netanyahu said they were months away from the bomb (he's been saying that since the 80s - ok I'm exaggerating a bit) but let's say they were close. We're now more than two years into the deal, have access to nuclear sites, know a lot more about what is going on, and they still don't have a bomb. If Netanyahu was correct, they would have developed the bomb by the end of 2015. Israel got an extra two years of a nuclear free Iran, and counting.

This also opens up the country a little more economically, which is far different from anything in NK, and benefits the same people that are out there protesting the government. The same government that was against the nuclear deal.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:00 pm 
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We don't have access to sites, and have less idea what is going on. Both ridiculous assertions.

And.... the last Iranian leader was proclaiming Iran was nuclear, and had for years, so maybe your attempt to make Netanyahu seem paranoid and misinformed is itself misplaced.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:03 pm 
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RiverguyVT wrote:
We don't have access to sites, and have less idea what is going on. Both ridiculous assertions.

And.... the last Iranian leader was proclaiming Iran was nuclear, and had for years, so maybe your attempt to make Netanyahu seem paranoid and misinformed is itself misplaced.


He has every right to be, but his dire predictions have not been accurate. No one seems to think they had a bomb, not even Netanyahu.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:05 pm 
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TheH2 wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:
TheH2 wrote:
Mcl3 Hokie wrote:
TheH2 wrote:
RiverguyVT wrote:

Who would know? Dems gave them the means...

So they didn't have the means before the deal, but now they do?


Well, part of the agreement relied on Iran self-reporting. So, since they haven't self-reported they have a nuke, the rest of the world doesn't know where they stand on this issue.

We have access to the nuclear program, we can request access to anything, have the right to search within 14 days (I think 14?). Enriched uranium was shipped out of the country. This agreement was signed by a lot of countries not just the U.S.

The people that the Persians are protesting against are the same ways that did not want the nuclear deal.

No, we cannot inspect anything we want to. There are limitations, including some military bases where inspectors are not allowed and thus where"self reporting" will have to do. Three guesses where Irans weapon programs are located.

The inspectors can request access to any site if there is reason to do so. Iran has 24 days to conform. Apparently message board posters or Haley can not request the Iranian government give the inspectors access.

No, there are already sites that Iran has refused access to indicating that it will be all self reporting at those locations.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:05 pm 
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RiverguyVT wrote:
Quote:
The inspectors can request access to any site if there is reason to do so. Iran has 24 days to conform. Apparently message board posters or Haley can not request the Iranian government give the inspectors access

The inspectors who request access!? LOL! The same ones Iran denied access to every time they've asked for access in the past? Good grief, H2. You can't be this brainwashed.

So. Say they ask and are denied. Then what?
Oh snap. Nothing! That's right! No penalties. Just rely on the mullahs goodwill. That's brilliant.


If they are denied then back to the sanctions, the same thing that was happening before. And hell, we gained 2 years of a nuclear free Iran. Netanyahu should be happy for the 2 extra years.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:08 pm 
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133743Hokie wrote:
TheH2 wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:
TheH2 wrote:
Mcl3 Hokie wrote:
TheH2 wrote:
So they didn't have the means before the deal, but now they do?


Well, part of the agreement relied on Iran self-reporting. So, since they haven't self-reported they have a nuke, the rest of the world doesn't know where they stand on this issue.

We have access to the nuclear program, we can request access to anything, have the right to search within 14 days (I think 14?). Enriched uranium was shipped out of the country. This agreement was signed by a lot of countries not just the U.S.

The people that the Persians are protesting against are the same ways that did not want the nuclear deal.

No, we cannot inspect anything we want to. There are limitations, including some military bases where inspectors are not allowed and thus where"self reporting" will have to do. Three guesses where Irans weapon programs are located.

The inspectors can request access to any site if there is reason to do so. Iran has 24 days to conform. Apparently message board posters or Haley can not request the Iranian government give the inspectors access.

No, there are already sites that Iran has refused access to indicating that it will be all self reporting at those locations.

Not according to the inspectors. Trump has twice approved, why?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:10 pm 
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TheH2 wrote:
RiverguyVT wrote:
Quote:
The inspectors can request access to any site if there is reason to do so. Iran has 24 days to conform. Apparently message board posters or Haley can not request the Iranian government give the inspectors access

The inspectors who request access!? LOL! The same ones Iran denied access to every time they've asked for access in the past? Good grief, H2. You can't be this brainwashed.

So. Say they ask and are denied. Then what?
Oh snap. Nothing! That's right! No penalties. Just rely on the mullahs goodwill. That's brilliant.


If they are denied then back to the sanctions, the same thing that was happening before. And hell, we gained 2 years of a nuclear free Iran. Netanyahu should be happy for the 2 extra years.

So we claw back and reimpose the sanctions? Really? So now all of the businesses from the US and other ally countries that have set up shop the past 2 years are going to walk away? C'mon. Everyone on both sides knew that once into the agreement there was no going back. It's impossible to turn this back so Iran gets a slap on the wrist and keeps on. This is one of the reasons people didn't like the agreement -- it had no reasonable and actionable recourse provisions, just platitudes.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:13 pm 
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133743Hokie wrote:
TheH2 wrote:
RiverguyVT wrote:
Quote:
The inspectors can request access to any site if there is reason to do so. Iran has 24 days to conform. Apparently message board posters or Haley can not request the Iranian government give the inspectors access

The inspectors who request access!? LOL! The same ones Iran denied access to every time they've asked for access in the past? Good grief, H2. You can't be this brainwashed.

So. Say they ask and are denied. Then what?
Oh snap. Nothing! That's right! No penalties. Just rely on the mullahs goodwill. That's brilliant.


If they are denied then back to the sanctions, the same thing that was happening before. And hell, we gained 2 years of a nuclear free Iran. Netanyahu should be happy for the 2 extra years.

So we claw back and reimpose the sanctions? Really? So now all of the businesses from the US and other ally countries that have set up shop the past 2 years are going to walk away? C'mon. Everyone on both sides knew that once into the agreement there was no going back. It's impossible to turn this back so Iran gets a slap on the wrist and keeps on. This is one of the reasons people didn't like the agreement -- it had no reasonable and actionable recourse provisions, just platitudes.


Actually, a lot hasn't set up shop because there are still plenty of sanctions on Iran, because they are Iran. It has also limited investment for the same exact reason. High discount rate means high ROI needed.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:47 pm 
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Are you suggesting that the so-called "deal" (it was total capitulation and not a "deal" at all) is responsible for the last two years of Israel not getting nuked? That without the "deal", Israel would be radioactive wasteland now? You keep coming back to that like it is a situation gained, when in fact, a non-nuclear-bombed Israel was a situation existant before Barack's grand nuclear clearinghouse giveaway.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:08 pm 
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RiverguyVT wrote:
Are you suggesting that the so-called "deal" (it was total capitulation and not a "deal" at all) is responsible for the last two years of Israel not getting nuked? That without the "deal", Israel would be radioactive wasteland now? You keep coming back to that like it is a situation gained, when in fact, a non-nuclear-bombed Israel was a situation existant before Barack's grand nuclear clearinghouse giveaway.


No, I was certainly not implying that Iran would have used the bomb. Iran was only "months" away from having a bomb in Netanyahu's world (not using the bomb). It's two and a half years later and Iran still doesn't have a bomb. If Netanyahu truly believed they were months away from having a bomb, he should be happy that it's been 2 and a half and they still don't have one.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:14 pm 
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So the "deal" was a good one because it maintained status quo?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:18 pm 
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TheH2 wrote:
RiverguyVT wrote:
Are you suggesting that the so-called "deal" (it was total capitulation and not a "deal" at all) is responsible for the last two years of Israel not getting nuked? That without the "deal", Israel would be radioactive wasteland now? You keep coming back to that like it is a situation gained, when in fact, a non-nuclear-bombed Israel was a situation existant before Barack's grand nuclear clearinghouse giveaway.


No, I was certainly not implying that Iran would have used the bomb. Iran was only "months" away from having a bomb in Netanyahu's world (not using the bomb). It's two and a half years later and Iran still doesn't have a bomb. If Netanyahu truly believed they were months away from having a bomb, he should be happy that it's been 2 and a half and they still don't have one.


Image

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:57 pm 
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The only thing the other countries wanted was access to Iran’s markets. They don’t give a flip about them being nuclear capable. You know why? Because they won’t have to deal with a nuclear Iran. Who do you think will have to handle them? France? Nope, it will have to the USA and Israel.

TheH2 wrote:
RiverguyVT wrote:
Quote:
We have access to the nuclear program, we can request access to anything, have the right to search within 14 days (I think 14?). Enriched uranium was shipped out of the country. This agreement was signed by a lot of countries not just the U.S.


No, we do not have access to anything they don't want us to have access to. They denied access to sites before the poorly named "deal", so what planet are you on that you think now that restrictions were loosened, somehow Iran will allow access? 24 days is what I think you are reaching for, but there is ZERO enforcement mechanism.

There is no way to know what enriched uranium they do or do not have. Seeing that they were accumulating 20% before the deal, and now restrictions have been lifted, what makes you think they are now limiting themselves to 5%? Their goodwill? Their respect for the Christian west? Their track record? What, exactly?

Your point is that I have none? Huh, my point is that you may be the most gullible person on this board. "Yay, team!! Obama told me it was a good deal, so that's good enough for me! "

The same exact (more or less) "deal" terms made w NKorea yrs ago by Clinton today have folks in the pacific ducking whatever Kim libs around. Bill said that was a great deal too.


Obama didn't sign the deal, several countries did. All of which thought this was a reasonable conclusion to several years of sanctions. Netanyahu said they were months away from the bomb (he's been saying that since the 80s - ok I'm exaggerating a bit) but let's say they were close. We're now more than two years into the deal, have access to nuclear sites, know a lot more about what is going on, and they still don't have a bomb. If Netanyahu was correct, they would have developed the bomb by the end of 2015. Israel got an extra two years of a nuclear free Iran, and counting.

This also opens up the country a little more economically, which is far different from anything in NK, and benefits the same people that are out there protesting the government. The same government that was against the nuclear deal.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:19 pm 
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Mcl3 Hokie wrote:
The only thing the other countries wanted was access to Iran’s markets. They don’t give a flip about them being nuclear capable. You know why? Because they won’t have to deal with a nuclear Iran. Who do you think will have to handle them? France? Nope, it will have to the USA and Israel.



Bingo

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