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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:40 pm 
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USN_Hokie wrote:
Mcl3 Hokie wrote:
The only thing the other countries wanted was access to Iran’s markets. They don’t give a flip about them being nuclear capable. You know why? Because they won’t have to deal with a nuclear Iran. Who do you think will have to handle them? France? Nope, it will have to the USA and Israel.



Bingo

Exactly. To say the “rest of the world” approved of this is not a good reason to say the deal was good.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:40 pm 
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TheH2 wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:
TheH2 wrote:
RiverguyVT wrote:
Quote:
The inspectors can request access to any site if there is reason to do so. Iran has 24 days to conform. Apparently message board posters or Haley can not request the Iranian government give the inspectors access

The inspectors who request access!? LOL! The same ones Iran denied access to every time they've asked for access in the past? Good grief, H2. You can't be this brainwashed.

So. Say they ask and are denied. Then what?
Oh snap. Nothing! That's right! No penalties. Just rely on the mullahs goodwill. That's brilliant.


If they are denied then back to the sanctions, the same thing that was happening before. And hell, we gained 2 years of a nuclear free Iran. Netanyahu should be happy for the 2 extra years.

So we claw back and reimpose the sanctions? Really? So now all of the businesses from the US and other ally countries that have set up shop the past 2 years are going to walk away? C'mon. Everyone on both sides knew that once into the agreement there was no going back. It's impossible to turn this back so Iran gets a slap on the wrist and keeps on. This is one of the reasons people didn't like the agreement -- it had no reasonable and actionable recourse provisions, just platitudes.


Actually, a lot hasn't set up shop because there are still plenty of sanctions on Iran, because they are Iran. It has also limited investment for the same exact reason. High discount rate means high ROI needed.

What? Dozens of major businesses have set up shop there. Boeing and Airbus were selling them hundreds of planes. As soon as the sanctions were lifted the cash flowed in, capitalism at its finest. It can't be unwound. And that was one of the major complaints about the deal when it came out. No reasonable person really expected that sanction relief could be put back in the box.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:49 am 
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133743Hokie wrote:
TheH2 wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:
TheH2 wrote:
RiverguyVT wrote:
Quote:
The inspectors can request access to any site if there is reason to do so. Iran has 24 days to conform. Apparently message board posters or Haley can not request the Iranian government give the inspectors access

The inspectors who request access!? LOL! The same ones Iran denied access to every time they've asked for access in the past? Good grief, H2. You can't be this brainwashed.

So. Say they ask and are denied. Then what?
Oh snap. Nothing! That's right! No penalties. Just rely on the mullahs goodwill. That's brilliant.


If they are denied then back to the sanctions, the same thing that was happening before. And hell, we gained 2 years of a nuclear free Iran. Netanyahu should be happy for the 2 extra years.

So we claw back and reimpose the sanctions? Really? So now all of the businesses from the US and other ally countries that have set up shop the past 2 years are going to walk away? C'mon. Everyone on both sides knew that once into the agreement there was no going back. It's impossible to turn this back so Iran gets a slap on the wrist and keeps on. This is one of the reasons people didn't like the agreement -- it had no reasonable and actionable recourse provisions, just platitudes.


Actually, a lot hasn't set up shop because there are still plenty of sanctions on Iran, because they are Iran. It has also limited investment for the same exact reason. High discount rate means high ROI needed.

What? Dozens of major businesses have set up shop there. Boeing and Airbus were selling them hundreds of planes. As soon as the sanctions were lifted the cash flowed in, capitalism at its finest. It can't be unwound. And that was one of the major complaints about the deal when it came out. No reasonable person really expected that sanction relief could be put back in the box.


Great example that does nothing to prove your point. Boeing and Airbus lose what investment if the sanctions are reinstated. They sold planes, didn't open up factories.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:13 am 
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TheH2 wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:
TheH2 wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:
TheH2 wrote:
RiverguyVT wrote:
[quote]The inspectors can request access to any site if there is reason to do so. Iran has 24 days to conform. Apparently message board posters or Haley can not request the Iranian government give the inspectors access

The inspectors who request access!? LOL! The same ones Iran denied access to every time they've asked for access in the past? Good grief, H2. You can't be this brainwashed.

So. Say they ask and are denied. Then what?
Oh snap. Nothing! That's right! No penalties. Just rely on the mullahs goodwill. That's brilliant.


If they are denied then back to the sanctions, the same thing that was happening before. And hell, we gained 2 years of a nuclear free Iran. Netanyahu should be happy for the 2 extra years.

So we claw back and reimpose the sanctions? Really? So now all of the businesses from the US and other ally countries that have set up shop the past 2 years are going to walk away? C'mon. Everyone on both sides knew that once into the agreement there was no going back. It's impossible to turn this back so Iran gets a slap on the wrist and keeps on. This is one of the reasons people didn't like the agreement -- it had no reasonable and actionable recourse provisions, just platitudes.


Actually, a lot hasn't set up shop because there are still plenty of sanctions on Iran, because they are Iran. It has also limited investment for the same exact reason. High discount rate means high ROI needed.

What? Dozens of major businesses have set up shop there. Boeing and Airbus were selling them hundreds of planes. As soon as the sanctions were lifted the cash flowed in, capitalism at its finest. It can't be unwound. And that was one of the major complaints about the deal when it came out. No reasonable person really expected that sanction relief could be put back in the box.


Great example that does nothing to prove your point. Boeing and Airbus lose what investment if the sanctions are reinstated. They sold planes, didn't open up factories.[/quote]This has to be an act

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:10 am 
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TheH2 wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:
TheH2 wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:
TheH2 wrote:
The inspectors who request access!? LOL! The same ones Iran denied access to every time they've asked for access in the past? Good grief, H2. You can't be this brainwashed.

So. Say they ask and are denied. Then what?
Oh snap. Nothing! That's right! No penalties. Just rely on the mullahs goodwill. That's brilliant.


If they are denied then back to the sanctions, the same thing that was happening before. And hell, we gained 2 years of a nuclear free Iran. Netanyahu should be happy for the 2 extra years.

So we claw back and reimpose the sanctions? Really? So now all of the businesses from the US and other ally countries that have set up shop the past 2 years are going to walk away? C'mon. Everyone on both sides knew that once into the agreement there was no going back. It's impossible to turn this back so Iran gets a slap on the wrist and keeps on. This is one of the reasons people didn't like the agreement -- it had no reasonable and actionable recourse provisions, just platitudes.


Actually, a lot hasn't set up shop because there are still plenty of sanctions on Iran, because they are Iran. It has also limited investment for the same exact reason. High discount rate means high ROI needed.

What? Dozens of major businesses have set up shop there. Boeing and Airbus were selling them hundreds of planes. As soon as the sanctions were lifted the cash flowed in, capitalism at its finest. It can't be unwound. And that was one of the major complaints about the deal when it came out. No reasonable person really expected that sanction relief could be put back in the box.


Great example that does nothing to prove your point. Boeing and Airbus lose what investment if the sanctions are reinstated. They sold planes, didn't open up factories.[/quote]
I'll play your little game of dodge the issue. Boeing and Airbus will ramp up production capability (equipment, material, personnel) to fill the orders. Are you going to cancel the orders? How? And if so, are you going to expect them to eat all of their upfront and ongoing costs for the contracts?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:56 am 
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133743Hokie wrote:
I'll play your little game of dodge the issue. Boeing and Airbus will ramp up production capability (equipment, material, personnel) to fill the orders. Are you going to cancel the orders? How? And if so, are you going to expect them to eat all of their upfront and ongoing costs for the contracts?


Yes, but it's still inventory. They aren't making all the planes at once and it's not like there aren't other orders to fill. Boeing or Airbus just lost a multi-billion dollar buy. It happens (although I think that one was because their plane sucks but I didn't read too much into it - google feed).

I'm not saying it is nothing (e.g. discount rate and ROI), but they aren't putting themselves at on a limb and building something that goes to 0 if nuclear sanctions are placed. Again, there are still plenty of sanctions in place from them being Iran, a lot on financial transactions.

I also didn't say no investments were being made. The fact that there are still financial sanctions in place makes it difficult. As time goes by presumably this will ease. But the example you gave is big upside and manageable downside.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:13 pm 
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TheH2 wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:
I'll play your little game of dodge the issue. Boeing and Airbus will ramp up production capability (equipment, material, personnel) to fill the orders. Are you going to cancel the orders? How? And if so, are you going to expect them to eat all of their upfront and ongoing costs for the contracts?


Yes, but it's still inventory. They aren't making all the planes at once and it's not like there aren't other orders to fill. Boeing or Airbus just lost a multi-billion dollar buy. It happens (although I think that one was because their plane sucks but I didn't read too much into it - google feed).

I'm not saying it is nothing (e.g. discount rate and ROI), but they aren't putting themselves at on a limb and building something that goes to 0 if nuclear sanctions are placed. Again, there are still plenty of sanctions in place from them being Iran, a lot on financial transactions.

I also didn't say no investments were being made. The fact that there are still financial sanctions in place makes it difficult. As time goes by presumably this will ease. But the example you gave is big upside and manageable downside.


That's a significant cost, and a significant timing issue. They can't just slide those orders over to accommodate some other business entity. Airplane manufacturing doesn't work that way. They're stuck with a big expense on their hands for months if not longer. That's a big nut to eat.

And as to the sanctions -- they're gone. The agreement lifted of all the UN Security Council sanctions as well as all economic and financial embargoes by the US and the EU that were imposed on Iran's banks, insurance, investment, and all other related services in different fields, including petrochemical, oil, gas and automobile industries. Only sanctions on missile and weapons technology and for their support of terrorism remain in place.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:44 pm 
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133743Hokie wrote:
TheH2 wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:
I'll play your little game of dodge the issue. Boeing and Airbus will ramp up production capability (equipment, material, personnel) to fill the orders. Are you going to cancel the orders? How? And if so, are you going to expect them to eat all of their upfront and ongoing costs for the contracts?


Yes, but it's still inventory. They aren't making all the planes at once and it's not like there aren't other orders to fill. Boeing or Airbus just lost a multi-billion dollar buy. It happens (although I think that one was because their plane sucks but I didn't read too much into it - google feed).

I'm not saying it is nothing (e.g. discount rate and ROI), but they aren't putting themselves at on a limb and building something that goes to 0 if nuclear sanctions are placed. Again, there are still plenty of sanctions in place from them being Iran, a lot on financial transactions.

I also didn't say no investments were being made. The fact that there are still financial sanctions in place makes it difficult. As time goes by presumably this will ease. But the example you gave is big upside and manageable downside.


That's a significant cost, and a significant timing issue. They can't just slide those orders over to accommodate some other business entity. Airplane manufacturing doesn't work that way. They're stuck with a big expense on their hands for months if not longer. That's a big nut to eat.

And as to the sanctions -- they're gone. The agreement lifted of all the UN Security Council sanctions as well as all economic and financial embargoes by the US and the EU that were imposed on Iran's banks, insurance, investment, and all other related services in different fields, including petrochemical, oil, gas and automobile industries. Only sanctions on missile and weapons technology and for their support of terrorism remain in place.


Nuclear related sanctions
https://www.treasury.gov/resource-cente ... /iran.aspx

There are remaining sanctions for missiles programs and sponsoring of terrorism. New sanctions were even added in 2017.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:55 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:27 pm 
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TheH2 wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:
TheH2 wrote:
133743Hokie wrote:
I'll play your little game of dodge the issue. Boeing and Airbus will ramp up production capability (equipment, material, personnel) to fill the orders. Are you going to cancel the orders? How? And if so, are you going to expect them to eat all of their upfront and ongoing costs for the contracts?


Yes, but it's still inventory. They aren't making all the planes at once and it's not like there aren't other orders to fill. Boeing or Airbus just lost a multi-billion dollar buy. It happens (although I think that one was because their plane sucks but I didn't read too much into it - google feed).

I'm not saying it is nothing (e.g. discount rate and ROI), but they aren't putting themselves at on a limb and building something that goes to 0 if nuclear sanctions are placed. Again, there are still plenty of sanctions in place from them being Iran, a lot on financial transactions.

I also didn't say no investments were being made. The fact that there are still financial sanctions in place makes it difficult. As time goes by presumably this will ease. But the example you gave is big upside and manageable downside.


That's a significant cost, and a significant timing issue. They can't just slide those orders over to accommodate some other business entity. Airplane manufacturing doesn't work that way. They're stuck with a big expense on their hands for months if not longer. That's a big nut to eat.

And as to the sanctions -- they're gone. The agreement lifted of all the UN Security Council sanctions as well as all economic and financial embargoes by the US and the EU that were imposed on Iran's banks, insurance, investment, and all other related services in different fields, including petrochemical, oil, gas and automobile industries. Only sanctions on missile and weapons technology and for their support of terrorism remain in place.


Nuclear related sanctions
https://www.treasury.gov/resource-cente ... /iran.aspx

There are remaining sanctions for missiles programs and sponsoring of terrorism. New sanctions were even added in 2017.

That's exactly what I said, if you read my post. But banking and financial and, most importantly, oil are gone. You said there were still a lot of sanctions on finance that were hindering them. That's not true. They even got $100 billion cash out of the deal.


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