Taxing Unrealized Capital Gains: A Bad Idea That Just Won’t Die

[HokieHam]

Vampires are — so the stories go — extremely difficult to kill, and so it’s somehow appropriate that the same is true, but in reality, of predatory tax proposals.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/t ... -wont-die/

[nolanvt]

One of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard.

[awesome guy]

One of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard.

You should start saying your posts out loud then to hear dumber ideas.

[RiverguyVT]

Funny how the concept goes hand-in-hand w/ the IRS spying on all bank accounts, eh?

[awesome guy]

Funny how the concept goes hand-in-hand w/ the IRS spying on all bank accounts, eh?

It's worse than that, first step is to monitor transactions. Next stop is denying them. This is how the globalists want to manage the population, it's the second prong of their whacko monetary beliefs that the feds can print infinite money so long as the central planners are injected into the process to deny people from making purchases that drive prices through the rough. That's their rosey and "we care" explanation, we know that they'll use it to drive political foes out of the economy.

[Mcl3 Hokie]

Vampires are — so the stories go — extremely difficult to kill, and so it’s somehow appropriate that the same is true, but in reality, of predatory tax proposals.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/t ... -wont-die/

The first step should be carried interest, but that will never happen because of all the big money lobbyists.

[fatman]

Vampires are — so the stories go — extremely difficult to kill, and so it’s somehow appropriate that the same is true, but in reality, of predatory tax proposals.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/t ... -wont-die/

It’s means limited to people making 9 figures for 3 consecutive years. It has drawbacks, but so does our current system where billionaires pay far lower effective tax rates than folks making middle class 200-500k per year.

[awesome guy]

Vampires are — so the stories go — extremely difficult to kill, and so it’s somehow appropriate that the same is true, but in reality, of predatory tax proposals.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/t ... -wont-die/

It’s means limited to people making 9 figures for 3 consecutive years. It has drawbacks, but so does our current system where billionaires pay far lower effective tax rates than folks making middle class 200-500k per year.

They pay 90% of all taxes yet you foolish people believe they're cheating you.

[fatman]

Vampires are — so the stories go — extremely difficult to kill, and so it’s somehow appropriate that the same is true, but in reality, of predatory tax proposals.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/t ... -wont-die/

It’s means limited to people making 9 figures for 3 consecutive years. It has drawbacks, but so does our current system where billionaires pay far lower effective tax rates than folks making middle class 200-500k per year.

They pay 90% of all taxes yet you foolish people believe they're cheating you.

Nobody on this board paid a lower effective rate last year than Bezos, soros, or buffet. Keep thinking that’s effective tax policy while the deficit keeps growing.

[awesome guy]

Vampires are — so the stories go — extremely difficult to kill, and so it’s somehow appropriate that the same is true, but in reality, of predatory tax proposals.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/t ... -wont-die/

It’s means limited to people making 9 figures for 3 consecutive years. It has drawbacks, but so does our current system where billionaires pay far lower effective tax rates than folks making middle class 200-500k per year.

They pay 90% of all taxes yet you foolish people believe they're cheating you.

Nobody on this board paid a lower effective rate last year than Bezos, soros, or buffet. Keep thinking that’s effective tax policy while the deficit keeps growing.

He paid more than you'll make in your life. You're a fool and a piece of crap that believes you should control his wealth.

[133743Hokie]

Vampires are — so the stories go — extremely difficult to kill, and so it’s somehow appropriate that the same is true, but in reality, of predatory tax proposals.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/t ... -wont-die/

It’s means limited to people making 9 figures for 3 consecutive years. It has drawbacks, but so does our current system where billionaires pay far lower effective tax rates than folks making middle class 200-500k per year.

200k to 500k isn't middle class. Those billionaires are paying an oversized amount of taxes, in true dollars.

[133743Hokie]

Vampires are — so the stories go — extremely difficult to kill, and so it’s somehow appropriate that the same is true, but in reality, of predatory tax proposals.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/t ... -wont-die/

It’s means limited to people making 9 figures for 3 consecutive years. It has drawbacks, but so does our current system where billionaires pay far lower effective tax rates than folks making middle class 200-500k per year.

They pay 90% of all taxes yet you foolish people believe they're cheating you.

Nobody on this board paid a lower effective rate last year than Bezos, soros, or buffet. Keep thinking that’s effective tax policy while the deficit keeps growing.

Rate is irrelevant. Total dollars is all that matters.

[awesome guy]

Fatman, why do you believe you should have a hand in the wealth of billionaires?

[HokieHam]

I’m going to claim a tax credit on unrealized losses and quit paying taxes.

[BigDave]

I’m going to claim a tax credit on unrealized losses and quit paying taxes.

Well, if you own stocks in publicly traded companies, you would have to deliberately lose money in order to do that. So I don't think you would do that.

The real problem with this idea - other than that it is just insanely stupid - is what if I own a private company. Perhaps I'm Mitt Romney and own Bain Capital. Who is to say what the value of that company is at any given time? If I sell off 10% of that company for $100 million, then that implies that the company is worth $1 billion. But that valuation was based on a whole lot of work, negotiation, etc. Are we now going to have to go through that every year just so I can pay capital gains taxes (or get a refund) on whether the value of the company has gone up or down?

Or I think of crazy tax cases involving art that has belonged to someone for 50 years and never been on the market. You now have to have all of these things appraised annually. There was a case maybe 15-20 years ago where some guy owned a piece of Native American art that had, among other things, real bald eagle feathers on it. Then he died. His heirs consulted tax lawyers and art appraisers and everyone told them the same thing - it is illegal to sell bald eagle feathers and so this work of art has a fair market value of zero dollars. That makes sense - the fair market value is the price it would fetch on the open market. It's illegal to put it on the open market, so it has no fair market value.

The IRS disagreed. They pulled a number out of thin air and said it's worth $50 million, so now please pay us an inheritance tax of $25 million. Eventually, after years of lawsuits, the IRS allowed the piece to just be donated to a museum and waived the inheritance tax on it.

But imagine having to go through that every single year. You're some guy who has a piece of art that the IRS decides is worth a lot of money and you now have to get it appraised annually.

[133743Hokie]

I’m going to claim a tax credit on unrealized losses and quit paying taxes.

Well, if you own stocks in publicly traded companies, you would have to deliberately lose money in order to do that. So I don't think you would do that.

The real problem with this idea - other than that it is just insanely stupid - is what if I own a private company. Perhaps I'm Mitt Romney and own Bain Capital. Who is to say what the value of that company is at any given time? If I sell off 10% of that company for $100 million, then that implies that the company is worth $1 billion. But that valuation was based on a whole lot of work, negotiation, etc. Are we now going to have to go through that every year just so I can pay capital gains taxes (or get a refund) on whether the value of the company has gone up or down?

Or I think of crazy tax cases involving art that has belonged to someone for 50 years and never been on the market. You now have to have all of these things appraised annually. There was a case maybe 15-20 years ago where some guy owned a piece of Native American art that had, among other things, real bald eagle feathers on it. Then he died. His heirs consulted tax lawyers and art appraisers and everyone told them the same thing - it is illegal to sell bald eagle feathers and so this work of art has a fair market value of zero dollars. That makes sense - the fair market value is the price it would fetch on the open market. It's illegal to put it on the open market, so it has no fair market value.

The IRS disagreed. They pulled a number out of thin air and said it's worth $50 million, so now please pay us an inheritance tax of $25 million. Eventually, after years of lawsuits, the IRS allowed the piece to just be donated to a museum and waived the inheritance tax on it.

But imagine having to go through that every single year. You're some guy who has a piece of art that the IRS decides is worth a lot of money and you now have to get it appraised annually.

The Biden camp has said it would be applied only to liquid assets, so art, cars, property, etc. wouldn't be considered. And privately held companies tend to have an internal valuation done every year.

The bottom line is it is illegal because it isn't income, and the constitution only allows for the taxing of income.

[awesome guy]

I’m going to claim a tax credit on unrealized losses and quit paying taxes.

Well, if you own stocks in publicly traded companies, you would have to deliberately lose money in order to do that. So I don't think you would do that.

The real problem with this idea - other than that it is just insanely stupid - is what if I own a private company. Perhaps I'm Mitt Romney and own Bain Capital. Who is to say what the value of that company is at any given time? If I sell off 10% of that company for $100 million, then that implies that the company is worth $1 billion. But that valuation was based on a whole lot of work, negotiation, etc. Are we now going to have to go through that every year just so I can pay capital gains taxes (or get a refund) on whether the value of the company has gone up or down?

Or I think of crazy tax cases involving art that has belonged to someone for 50 years and never been on the market. You now have to have all of these things appraised annually. There was a case maybe 15-20 years ago where some guy owned a piece of Native American art that had, among other things, real bald eagle feathers on it. Then he died. His heirs consulted tax lawyers and art appraisers and everyone told them the same thing - it is illegal to sell bald eagle feathers and so this work of art has a fair market value of zero dollars. That makes sense - the fair market value is the price it would fetch on the open market. It's illegal to put it on the open market, so it has no fair market value.

The IRS disagreed. They pulled a number out of thin air and said it's worth $50 million, so now please pay us an inheritance tax of $25 million. Eventually, after years of lawsuits, the IRS allowed the piece to just be donated to a museum and waived the inheritance tax on it.

But imagine having to go through that every single year. You're some guy who has a piece of art that the IRS decides is worth a lot of money and you now have to get it appraised annually.

The Biden camp has said it would be applied only to liquid assets, so art, cars, property, etc. wouldn't be considered. And privately held companies tend to have an internal valuation done every year.

The bottom line is it is illegal because it isn't income, and the constitution only allows for the taxing of income.

That's because only income taxes were banned in the constitution. It's constitutional, though stupid and impossible to enforce. We've all seen how the "limited" new toys works out with the government. The first income tax was supposed to be temporary and just 2% on the rich. Now we're paying over 50% aggregate to various governments on top of property taxes and sales taxes. That chaps my ass, just on my boats, I paid ~$3k in property taxes, and that's on top of the crazy sales tax I paid at purchase and gas tax to operate them. That's just the boats, getting squeezed on vehicles and real-estate too. I'm getting robbed by my government. We should take over the "great reset" and return to abolishing these outrageous taxes.

[awesome guy]

These people are insane. I forgot the exact statistic, but it was something along of the lines of if we took 100% of the wealth of the billionaires then that wouldn't even fund 1 year of the government. It may be 2 years, it may be 8 months, but the point remains that there simply isn't enough wealth in America to fund this amount of spending. So it's back to spending being the problem. We're spending more than we could even imagine to make while at the same time crippling the ability to generate new revenue. We're done if spending isn't cut. We're still operating with the insane Obama 08/09 "financial crisis" spending while congress are looking to dump even further on spending.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-the-bi ... 1635325201

[HokieHam]

Good stuff…..bad for the socialists/commies

[awesome guy]

Good stuff…..bad for the socialists/commies

Hero in the war against communism!

[HokieFanDC]

I’m going to claim a tax credit on unrealized losses and quit paying taxes.

Well, if you own stocks in publicly traded companies, you would have to deliberately lose money in order to do that. So I don't think you would do that.

The real problem with this idea - other than that it is just insanely stupid - is what if I own a private company. Perhaps I'm Mitt Romney and own Bain Capital. Who is to say what the value of that company is at any given time? If I sell off 10% of that company for $100 million, then that implies that the company is worth $1 billion. But that valuation was based on a whole lot of work, negotiation, etc. Are we now going to have to go through that every year just so I can pay capital gains taxes (or get a refund) on whether the value of the company has gone up or down?

Or I think of crazy tax cases involving art that has belonged to someone for 50 years and never been on the market. You now have to have all of these things appraised annually. There was a case maybe 15-20 years ago where some guy owned a piece of Native American art that had, among other things, real bald eagle feathers on it. Then he died. His heirs consulted tax lawyers and art appraisers and everyone told them the same thing - it is illegal to sell bald eagle feathers and so this work of art has a fair market value of zero dollars. That makes sense - the fair market value is the price it would fetch on the open market. It's illegal to put it on the open market, so it has no fair market value.

The IRS disagreed. They pulled a number out of thin air and said it's worth $50 million, so now please pay us an inheritance tax of $25 million. Eventually, after years of lawsuits, the IRS allowed the piece to just be donated to a museum and waived the inheritance tax on it.

But imagine having to go through that every single year. You're some guy who has a piece of art that the IRS decides is worth a lot of money and you now have to get it appraised annually.

It's a total freaking nightmare.

[HokieFanDC]

Good stuff…..bad for the socialists/commies

It would be fun to be Manchin these days. Poking the progressives all day has to be enjoyable.

[HokieHam]

LOL….of course the resident Hopium AWOL was for this……..

Unrealized Gains Tax is an Economic Fallacy

https://www.aier.org/article/unrealize ... c-fallacy/

[BigDave]

From a quick google, I agree with the billionaire who said the plan is "dead on arrival and stupid to boot"

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/02/09/joe-bid ... rival.html

So Biden's plan is to only tax "tradable assets". So that's how he gets around the problem I mentioned three years ago - having to do a valuation on every object of artwork and every private company every year, just in case it's over $100 million.

But that also makes it sound like it will be incredibly easy to evade. Bury your "tradable assets" in shell companies, with each shell company owning no more than $100 million in "tradable assets". Done.

[UpstateSCHokie]

Unbelievable!