Exactly. To say the “rest of the world” approved of this is not a good reason to say the deal was good.USN_Hokie wrote:BingoMcl3 Hokie wrote:The only thing the other countries wanted was access to Iran’s markets. They don’t give a flip about them being nuclear capable. You know why? Because they won’t have to deal with a nuclear Iran. Who do you think will have to handle them? France? Nope, it will have to the USA and Israel.
Price protests turn political in Iran as rallies spread
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- HokieHam
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Re: Price protests turn political in Iran as rallies spread
"if you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face-forever."
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Re: Price protests turn political in Iran as rallies spread
What? Dozens of major businesses have set up shop there. Boeing and Airbus were selling them hundreds of planes. As soon as the sanctions were lifted the cash flowed in, capitalism at its finest. It can't be unwound. And that was one of the major complaints about the deal when it came out. No reasonable person really expected that sanction relief could be put back in the box.TheH2 wrote:Actually, a lot hasn't set up shop because there are still plenty of sanctions on Iran, because they are Iran. It has also limited investment for the same exact reason. High discount rate means high ROI needed.133743Hokie wrote:So we claw back and reimpose the sanctions? Really? So now all of the businesses from the US and other ally countries that have set up shop the past 2 years are going to walk away? C'mon. Everyone on both sides knew that once into the agreement there was no going back. It's impossible to turn this back so Iran gets a slap on the wrist and keeps on. This is one of the reasons people didn't like the agreement -- it had no reasonable and actionable recourse provisions, just platitudes.TheH2 wrote:If they are denied then back to the sanctions, the same thing that was happening before. And hell, we gained 2 years of a nuclear free Iran. Netanyahu should be happy for the 2 extra years.RiverguyVT wrote:The inspectors who request access!? LOL! The same ones Iran denied access to every time they've asked for access in the past? Good grief, H2. You can't be this brainwashed.The inspectors can request access to any site if there is reason to do so. Iran has 24 days to conform. Apparently message board posters or Haley can not request the Iranian government give the inspectors access
So. Say they ask and are denied. Then what?
Oh snap. Nothing! That's right! No penalties. Just rely on the mullahs goodwill. That's brilliant.
Re: Price protests turn political in Iran as rallies spread
Great example that does nothing to prove your point. Boeing and Airbus lose what investment if the sanctions are reinstated. They sold planes, didn't open up factories.133743Hokie wrote:What? Dozens of major businesses have set up shop there. Boeing and Airbus were selling them hundreds of planes. As soon as the sanctions were lifted the cash flowed in, capitalism at its finest. It can't be unwound. And that was one of the major complaints about the deal when it came out. No reasonable person really expected that sanction relief could be put back in the box.TheH2 wrote:Actually, a lot hasn't set up shop because there are still plenty of sanctions on Iran, because they are Iran. It has also limited investment for the same exact reason. High discount rate means high ROI needed.133743Hokie wrote:So we claw back and reimpose the sanctions? Really? So now all of the businesses from the US and other ally countries that have set up shop the past 2 years are going to walk away? C'mon. Everyone on both sides knew that once into the agreement there was no going back. It's impossible to turn this back so Iran gets a slap on the wrist and keeps on. This is one of the reasons people didn't like the agreement -- it had no reasonable and actionable recourse provisions, just platitudes.TheH2 wrote:If they are denied then back to the sanctions, the same thing that was happening before. And hell, we gained 2 years of a nuclear free Iran. Netanyahu should be happy for the 2 extra years.RiverguyVT wrote:The inspectors who request access!? LOL! The same ones Iran denied access to every time they've asked for access in the past? Good grief, H2. You can't be this brainwashed.The inspectors can request access to any site if there is reason to do so. Iran has 24 days to conform. Apparently message board posters or Haley can not request the Iranian government give the inspectors access
So. Say they ask and are denied. Then what?
Oh snap. Nothing! That's right! No penalties. Just rely on the mullahs goodwill. That's brilliant.
People who know, know.
- awesome guy
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Re: Price protests turn political in Iran as rallies spread
This has to be an actTheH2 wrote:Great example that does nothing to prove your point. Boeing and Airbus lose what investment if the sanctions are reinstated. They sold planes, didn't open up factories.133743Hokie wrote:What? Dozens of major businesses have set up shop there. Boeing and Airbus were selling them hundreds of planes. As soon as the sanctions were lifted the cash flowed in, capitalism at its finest. It can't be unwound. And that was one of the major complaints about the deal when it came out. No reasonable person really expected that sanction relief could be put back in the box.TheH2 wrote:Actually, a lot hasn't set up shop because there are still plenty of sanctions on Iran, because they are Iran. It has also limited investment for the same exact reason. High discount rate means high ROI needed.133743Hokie wrote:So we claw back and reimpose the sanctions? Really? So now all of the businesses from the US and other ally countries that have set up shop the past 2 years are going to walk away? C'mon. Everyone on both sides knew that once into the agreement there was no going back. It's impossible to turn this back so Iran gets a slap on the wrist and keeps on. This is one of the reasons people didn't like the agreement -- it had no reasonable and actionable recourse provisions, just platitudes.TheH2 wrote:If they are denied then back to the sanctions, the same thing that was happening before. And hell, we gained 2 years of a nuclear free Iran. Netanyahu should be happy for the 2 extra years.RiverguyVT wrote: The inspectors who request access!? LOL! The same ones Iran denied access to every time they've asked for access in the past? Good grief, H2. You can't be this brainwashed.
So. Say they ask and are denied. Then what?
Oh snap. Nothing! That's right! No penalties. Just rely on the mullahs goodwill. That's brilliant.
Unvaccinated,. mask free, and still alive.
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Re: Price protests turn political in Iran as rallies spread
Great example that does nothing to prove your point. Boeing and Airbus lose what investment if the sanctions are reinstated. They sold planes, didn't open up factories.[/quote]TheH2 wrote:What? Dozens of major businesses have set up shop there. Boeing and Airbus were selling them hundreds of planes. As soon as the sanctions were lifted the cash flowed in, capitalism at its finest. It can't be unwound. And that was one of the major complaints about the deal when it came out. No reasonable person really expected that sanction relief could be put back in the box.133743Hokie wrote:Actually, a lot hasn't set up shop because there are still plenty of sanctions on Iran, because they are Iran. It has also limited investment for the same exact reason. High discount rate means high ROI needed.TheH2 wrote:So we claw back and reimpose the sanctions? Really? So now all of the businesses from the US and other ally countries that have set up shop the past 2 years are going to walk away? C'mon. Everyone on both sides knew that once into the agreement there was no going back. It's impossible to turn this back so Iran gets a slap on the wrist and keeps on. This is one of the reasons people didn't like the agreement -- it had no reasonable and actionable recourse provisions, just platitudes.133743Hokie wrote:If they are denied then back to the sanctions, the same thing that was happening before. And hell, we gained 2 years of a nuclear free Iran. Netanyahu should be happy for the 2 extra years.TheH2 wrote: The inspectors who request access!? LOL! The same ones Iran denied access to every time they've asked for access in the past? Good grief, H2. You can't be this brainwashed.
So. Say they ask and are denied. Then what?
Oh snap. Nothing! That's right! No penalties. Just rely on the mullahs goodwill. That's brilliant.
I'll play your little game of dodge the issue. Boeing and Airbus will ramp up production capability (equipment, material, personnel) to fill the orders. Are you going to cancel the orders? How? And if so, are you going to expect them to eat all of their upfront and ongoing costs for the contracts?
Re: Price protests turn political in Iran as rallies spread
Yes, but it's still inventory. They aren't making all the planes at once and it's not like there aren't other orders to fill. Boeing or Airbus just lost a multi-billion dollar buy. It happens (although I think that one was because their plane sucks but I didn't read too much into it - google feed).133743Hokie wrote: I'll play your little game of dodge the issue. Boeing and Airbus will ramp up production capability (equipment, material, personnel) to fill the orders. Are you going to cancel the orders? How? And if so, are you going to expect them to eat all of their upfront and ongoing costs for the contracts?
I'm not saying it is nothing (e.g. discount rate and ROI), but they aren't putting themselves at on a limb and building something that goes to 0 if nuclear sanctions are placed. Again, there are still plenty of sanctions in place from them being Iran, a lot on financial transactions.
I also didn't say no investments were being made. The fact that there are still financial sanctions in place makes it difficult. As time goes by presumably this will ease. But the example you gave is big upside and manageable downside.
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Re: Price protests turn political in Iran as rallies spread
That's a significant cost, and a significant timing issue. They can't just slide those orders over to accommodate some other business entity. Airplane manufacturing doesn't work that way. They're stuck with a big expense on their hands for months if not longer. That's a big nut to eat.TheH2 wrote:Yes, but it's still inventory. They aren't making all the planes at once and it's not like there aren't other orders to fill. Boeing or Airbus just lost a multi-billion dollar buy. It happens (although I think that one was because their plane sucks but I didn't read too much into it - google feed).133743Hokie wrote: I'll play your little game of dodge the issue. Boeing and Airbus will ramp up production capability (equipment, material, personnel) to fill the orders. Are you going to cancel the orders? How? And if so, are you going to expect them to eat all of their upfront and ongoing costs for the contracts?
I'm not saying it is nothing (e.g. discount rate and ROI), but they aren't putting themselves at on a limb and building something that goes to 0 if nuclear sanctions are placed. Again, there are still plenty of sanctions in place from them being Iran, a lot on financial transactions.
I also didn't say no investments were being made. The fact that there are still financial sanctions in place makes it difficult. As time goes by presumably this will ease. But the example you gave is big upside and manageable downside.
And as to the sanctions -- they're gone. The agreement lifted of all the UN Security Council sanctions as well as all economic and financial embargoes by the US and the EU that were imposed on Iran's banks, insurance, investment, and all other related services in different fields, including petrochemical, oil, gas and automobile industries. Only sanctions on missile and weapons technology and for their support of terrorism remain in place.
Re: Price protests turn political in Iran as rallies spread
Nuclear related sanctions133743Hokie wrote:That's a significant cost, and a significant timing issue. They can't just slide those orders over to accommodate some other business entity. Airplane manufacturing doesn't work that way. They're stuck with a big expense on their hands for months if not longer. That's a big nut to eat.TheH2 wrote:Yes, but it's still inventory. They aren't making all the planes at once and it's not like there aren't other orders to fill. Boeing or Airbus just lost a multi-billion dollar buy. It happens (although I think that one was because their plane sucks but I didn't read too much into it - google feed).133743Hokie wrote: I'll play your little game of dodge the issue. Boeing and Airbus will ramp up production capability (equipment, material, personnel) to fill the orders. Are you going to cancel the orders? How? And if so, are you going to expect them to eat all of their upfront and ongoing costs for the contracts?
I'm not saying it is nothing (e.g. discount rate and ROI), but they aren't putting themselves at on a limb and building something that goes to 0 if nuclear sanctions are placed. Again, there are still plenty of sanctions in place from them being Iran, a lot on financial transactions.
I also didn't say no investments were being made. The fact that there are still financial sanctions in place makes it difficult. As time goes by presumably this will ease. But the example you gave is big upside and manageable downside.
And as to the sanctions -- they're gone. The agreement lifted of all the UN Security Council sanctions as well as all economic and financial embargoes by the US and the EU that were imposed on Iran's banks, insurance, investment, and all other related services in different fields, including petrochemical, oil, gas and automobile industries. Only sanctions on missile and weapons technology and for their support of terrorism remain in place.
https://www.treasury.gov/resource-cente ... /iran.aspx
There are remaining sanctions for missiles programs and sponsoring of terrorism. New sanctions were even added in 2017.
People who know, know.
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Re: Price protests turn political in Iran as rallies spread
Inenforceable/unenforced
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Salute the Marines
Soon we'll have planes that fly 22000 mph
"#PedoPete" = Hunter's name for his dad.
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Re: Price protests turn political in Iran as rallies spread
That's exactly what I said, if you read my post. But banking and financial and, most importantly, oil are gone. You said there were still a lot of sanctions on finance that were hindering them. That's not true. They even got $100 billion cash out of the deal.TheH2 wrote:Nuclear related sanctions133743Hokie wrote:That's a significant cost, and a significant timing issue. They can't just slide those orders over to accommodate some other business entity. Airplane manufacturing doesn't work that way. They're stuck with a big expense on their hands for months if not longer. That's a big nut to eat.TheH2 wrote:Yes, but it's still inventory. They aren't making all the planes at once and it's not like there aren't other orders to fill. Boeing or Airbus just lost a multi-billion dollar buy. It happens (although I think that one was because their plane sucks but I didn't read too much into it - google feed).133743Hokie wrote: I'll play your little game of dodge the issue. Boeing and Airbus will ramp up production capability (equipment, material, personnel) to fill the orders. Are you going to cancel the orders? How? And if so, are you going to expect them to eat all of their upfront and ongoing costs for the contracts?
I'm not saying it is nothing (e.g. discount rate and ROI), but they aren't putting themselves at on a limb and building something that goes to 0 if nuclear sanctions are placed. Again, there are still plenty of sanctions in place from them being Iran, a lot on financial transactions.
I also didn't say no investments were being made. The fact that there are still financial sanctions in place makes it difficult. As time goes by presumably this will ease. But the example you gave is big upside and manageable downside.
And as to the sanctions -- they're gone. The agreement lifted of all the UN Security Council sanctions as well as all economic and financial embargoes by the US and the EU that were imposed on Iran's banks, insurance, investment, and all other related services in different fields, including petrochemical, oil, gas and automobile industries. Only sanctions on missile and weapons technology and for their support of terrorism remain in place.
https://www.treasury.gov/resource-cente ... /iran.aspx
There are remaining sanctions for missiles programs and sponsoring of terrorism. New sanctions were even added in 2017.
Re: Price protests turn political in Iran as rallies spread
Oops.TheH2 wrote:The inspectors can request access to any site if there is reason to do so. Iran has 24 days to conform. Apparently message board posters or Haley can not request the Iranian government give the inspectors access.133743Hokie wrote:No, we cannot inspect anything we want to. There are limitations, including some military bases where inspectors are not allowed and thus where"self reporting" will have to do. Three guesses where Irans weapon programs are located.TheH2 wrote:We have access to the nuclear program, we can request access to anything, have the right to search within 14 days (I think 14?). Enriched uranium was shipped out of the country. This agreement was signed by a lot of countries not just the U.S.Mcl3 Hokie wrote:Well, part of the agreement relied on Iran self-reporting. So, since they haven't self-reported they have a nuke, the rest of the world doesn't know where they stand on this issue.TheH2 wrote:So they didn't have the means before the deal, but now they do?RiverguyVT wrote:
Who would know? Dems gave them the means...
The people that the Persians are protesting against are the same ways that did not want the nuclear deal.
Re: Price protests turn political in Iran as rallies spread
Nice theory133743Hokie wrote:So we claw back and reimpose the sanctions? Really? So now all of the businesses from the US and other ally countries that have set up shop the past 2 years are going to walk away? C'mon. Everyone on both sides knew that once into the agreement there was no going back. It's impossible to turn this back so Iran gets a slap on the wrist and keeps on. This is one of the reasons people didn't like the agreement -- it had no reasonable and actionable recourse provisions, just platitudes.TheH2 wrote:If they are denied then back to the sanctions, the same thing that was happening before. And hell, we gained 2 years of a nuclear free Iran. Netanyahu should be happy for the 2 extra years.RiverguyVT wrote:The inspectors who request access!? LOL! The same ones Iran denied access to every time they've asked for access in the past? Good grief, H2. You can't be this brainwashed.The inspectors can request access to any site if there is reason to do so. Iran has 24 days to conform. Apparently message board posters or Haley can not request the Iranian government give the inspectors access
So. Say they ask and are denied. Then what?
Oh snap. Nothing! That's right! No penalties. Just rely on the mullahs goodwill. That's brilliant.
People who know, know.